[aljungberg]

Can us common people get to decide what the common good is, or is that exclusively your choice?

Censorship is something governments do, not private companies selling an optional product.

If the greater good is a free for all app store, then let the greater populace decide that by choosing that product, not by outlawing the alternatives.

[car_analogy]

> Can us common people get to decide what the common good is, or is that exclusively your choice?

This legislation is the result of democratic process - i.e. decided by the "common people", if indirectly.

> let the greater populace decide that by choosing that product

"The only legitimate power citizens have is that of consumers, not voters." - shall we also decide to only buy from companies that don't use child labor, and don't put toxic chemicals in food, and don't pollute, or are those areas something where legislation is legitimate, while reigning in anti-competitive practices for some reason is not okay?

[aljungberg]

> This legislation is the result of democratic process - i.e. decided by the "common people", if indirectly.

Do you know that for a fact? The EU is famously opaque to its voters. What is being done in the name of the voters is likely for the most part entirely unknown to said voters. Very likely many more EU citizens have “voted” on this issue in a more direct fashion by buying Apple products. Should we disregard their opinion in favour of the opinion of a few bureaucrats four levels removed from the common people?

> shall we also decide to only buy from companies that don't use child labor, and don't put toxic chemicals in food, and don't pollute, or are those areas something where legislation is legitimate, while reigning in anti-competitive practices for some reason is not okay?

Ehr, yes? Shouldn’t we decide to avoid bad companies? Reminder that this subthread is about not infantilising people. I do believe people make such choices all the time, to avoid child labour and what not. What’s more democratic than a vast majority of people making such choices without coercion?

[car_analogy]

> Ehr, yes? Shouldn’t we decide to avoid bad companies?

What I clearly meant was if that should be the only defense we have against such companies. Or should we also have things like food and work safety regulations, and anti-child-labor laws.

> What’s more democratic than a vast majority of people making such choices without coercion?

Consumerism is the ultimate democracy, voting for laws and representatives is tyranny...

[kaba0]

> Very likely many more EU citizens have “voted” on this issue in a more direct fashion by buying Apple products.

Can you honestly tell what exactly they voted on? I voted for the good hardware and privacy-aligned actions, which did overcome their closed, proprietary-only software’s problems. By your logic, my vote should count towards the latter as a goal.

[aljungberg]

I can’t tell what the buyers of Apple products voted for exactly, but neither can you tell me what EU voters voted for when choosing their rep.

I mean here we have a law proposed by an unelected body (the European Commission), now being ratified by the European Parliament. The EP is elected (with ~50% turnout) but decides numerous issues (thousands? Tens of thousands?) in an election cycle. When voters elected their representatives how much thought did they spare to walled garden app stores?

Although both are indirect expressions of opinion, buying an Apple product seems to be a clearer endorsement for their model than voting in EU elections by a long shot.

[kaba0]

Not sure if it is comparable. If the EU would ban Apple products than sure, but regulating the platform should not be only an Apple-issue. These private companies are so big that they have considerable impact on the public, so I think it is only fair that the public gets a say as well (in the form of indirect democracy, as we don’t have better).

[kaba0]

> Censorship is something governments do, not private companies selling an optional product.

Since when? Private companies have exceedingly large powers and they are not chosen in a democratic manner by people at all. Apple could on a whim cut me off from most of my data or impersonate me, facebook feeds false information to whole countries, swaying public opinion.

At least most governments are more-or-less democratically elected.