[buff-a]

And C++ classes merely compile to C methods with mangled names that also take a pointer to a C struct, the first member of which is a pointer to an array of such functions, and whose remaining members are the fields.

If you (or GP) are going to argue that C++ is no more productive than C simply because cfront turns C++ into C, then I think theory has gotten in the way of reality.

[scott_s]

I think the key difference is if the language feature automates a kind of abstraction that was manual in the other language. For example, one can write object-oriented programs in C, but you have to do it all yourself. And C++ programs can, as you pointed out, be translated to equivalent C programs. But classes and objects in C++ are language level abstractions that don't exist in C. In that regard, I agree with you: if you want to do OO programming, one can be more productive in C++ than C.

I have read much detail about Extend, but to me, the key question becomes: does it have language level abstractions that Java does not? I think closures and anonymous functions qualify, but I don't know if they're enough to make that much of a difference.

But what I've seen of Extend, with the exception of closures and anonymous functions, it doesn't actually have any new abstractions. It just cleans up the syntax.

[buff-a]

It doesn't have any new abstractions except for those two really useful ones. Oh, ok, but it other than those it doesn't have any new ones. =)

[skrebbel]

Eh. I was arguing the direct opposite. I have the feeling that you're just looking to pick a fight.