[skrebbel]

> The fact that Xtend can be easily translated to Java source code is a big sign that it probably won't have any dramatic impact on your productivity.

It appears to be common Hackernewserthink that "productivity" equals "the ability to write code as fast as possible". Beyond the first few weeks of coding, you'll spend much more time reading code and refactoring it.

What Xtend offers is an object model and type system that anyone with Java experience can understand right away, but with significantly more readability. This means better maintainability, which means a significant productivity increase once you're past the "hack away, guys!" stadium.

Coffeescript has exactly the same major advantage over JavaScript. The point is that because CoffeeScript/Xtend so closely mimic their target language, there are no leaky abstractions, so no thinking-in-two-worlds headaches. Yet, the code becomes significantly more readable, which matters.

These developments really are major. There's a reason so many more people use CoffeeScript than, say, ClojureScript or GWT. The only reason why the same wouldn't happen with Xtend in the Java world is non-technical: too many Java shops are conservative and afraid of change, even change as low-barrier as Xtend.

They should've called it "Coffee", though.

[luriel]

> It appears to be common Hackernewserthink that "productivity" equals "the ability to write code as fast as possible". Beyond the first few weeks of coding, you'll spend much more time reading code and refactoring it.

And even more time thinking.

This is one of the reasons I never understood the obsession many people have with vim/emacs/whatever shortcuts and the like, for me they are distractions from what is really important: thinking about what code does and what it should do.

Fun fact: Ken Thompson doesn't touch-type, and a couple other amazing hackers I know are the same. I suspect this might even be a benefit as it encourages them even more to think before they type.

[chipsy]

These things are a form of "premature optimization," which I think anyone can be misguided into, but which younger/less experienced programmers are particularly prone to, because they naturally tend to have uneven skill development, so they'll try to build from strengths before branching out.

Premature optimization of typing = complex text editor

Premature optimization of debugging = excessive unit tests or formalism

Premature optimization of product = coding features without feedback

[ricky_clarkson]

Having typed since I was 5, I think while typing, and going back and forth in code is the same as thinking for me. I'd expect that most of these amazing hackers are from the era where they wouldn't see a keyboard until being 16 or 18.

I'm not a vim/emacs shortcut freak, but I do appreciate environments that don't make me use a mouse.

[efsavage]

And more specifically: It appears to be common Hackernewserthink that "productivity" equals "the ability to type code as fast as possible".