[bavent]

Wow, this is complete opposite of America. I have run several bars/restaurants and most of our money came from alcohol sales. Food was still profitable, but much tighter margins. A lot more labor goes into the food side of the business too, and we couldn't get away with marking things up 4x like you can with wine.

I think as you get into Michelin-starred places, the name of the chef and the quality of the food is enough to allow you to charge more, and also to cheap out on labor - some of the top restaurants in Chicago collude to pay their cooks $10-12/hr, for example.

[heavyset_go]

I was under the impression that margins on alcohol were huge. At least where I am, proprietors trip over themselves to get alcohol licenses, and those licenses go for hefty premiums.

[bavent]

They are - usually a place will charge 3-4x, sometimes 5-6x depending on the type of liquor and brand, what they paid for the product. You lose a bit to labor if you're making craft cocktails, as there can be a lot of prep behind those. Having a good wine list usually means have a sommelier or wine steward who will get paid a bit more than the rest of the serving staff. But for the most part the labor costs for front-of-house are nothing ($2.13/hr in a lot of states) compared to the cooking staff.

[browningstreet]

I have a friend who owns a popular bar and a popular coffee shop. He says he makes far more profit off the coffee shop (which has baked goods and sandwiches and salads) than the bar. Might be different in disparate places.

[ransom1538]

"I wish I had opened a bar" - every restaurant owner I have met.

[algorias]

I'd think those low wages are also partly explained by the desirability of working at a top place (good for your CV and for acquiring actual skills). Pretty similar to how the game industry attracts talent out of proportion to the monetary compensation they pay.

[bavent]

They're 100% explained by that, not just partially. At all of the top-rated restaurants in every city I've cooked in, all the chefs are buddies. It's very common for there to be a tacit agreement to just not pay more than $X, that way they can all keep labor costs down.

[throwawaycuriou]

do you have any sourced examples for this collusion?

a friend of mine bailed the craft after being offered minimum wage and a 60 hour requirement in the kitchen of a Michelin star restaurant in NYC

[bavent]

It's me, I'm the source. I worked in a lot of those Michelin-starred places in quite a few cities.

I also bailed. The pay and hours were a large part of it. But I did it for years and years.

[throwawaycuriou]

has there been any attempt to pursue this legally?

[bavent]

I know there have been some higher-profile suits filed against some famous and semi-famous chefs for unpaid wages/stolen tips (Mario Batali, Tom Douglas, Charlie Trotter, a few others), but it's hard to directly challenge collusion like this when it's very unofficial. And a quick way to end your career and get blacklisted from any other high end restaurant.

[hn_go_brrrrr]

Are the chefs also the owners or managers?

[bavent]

In a lot of the Michelin places, usually the chef will have a stake in it. To get investors behind them, they usually already have a name and bit of cachet and also worked for other Michelin-starred chefs. The ones I've worked at have varied from "celebrity chef, never actually in the kitchen, everything is actually created by the chef de cuisine and sous" to "micromanaging psycho" to "humble dude who just wants to make good food." So it varies - some manage every aspect of it, but usually there is a dedicated team for the front-of-house and the chef just does the creative side of the food, collaborating usually with his chef de cuisine and sous chefs. CDC and sous handle the day-to-day stuff like ordering, inventory, scheduling.