[Roybatty]

" However, any Java programmers could have made the switch to Clojure or Scala to keep working with the JVM"

Clojure is a nonstarter for the vast majority of Java programmers for obvious reasons, and Scala has a perception problem.

[rbanffy]

> for obvious reasons

As someone from outside the Java universe, I'd like to learn more about those reasons and why they are obvious.

[pluies]

I'd wager Clojure and its Lispy roots is way too foreign-looking for most Java programmers. And to be honest, the functional programming paradigm is pretty hard to grasp when you've never seen it before, and requires some effort to get proficient in (and more thought, but I don't want to be derogatory against Java programmers).

[nickik]

The problem is education, they still teach java like it is programmed 10 years ago.

[Roybatty]

The vast majority of Java developers are very, very comfortable with static typing and the most advanced IDEs in software development.

Clojure with its s-expressions and dynamic typing is going nowhere except for some small, high-brow teams...just the way it is.

Scala lost its opportunity a while back with its perception problem and lack of IDE support.

[fosk]

Can you please explain the Scala's perception problem?

[radu_floricica]

I can tell why I (a java programmer who slowly moves to Clojure) didn't go the Scala route. Because every time I've seen code sample comparisons, the clojure one was shorter then the java original and the scala was longer. Plus it's foreign enough from java... so if I do it, better to go all the way and make it worth it.

[viraptor]

I'm surprised how is that even possible? You can probably translate every Java file, line-by-line into Scala. Then remove the redundant type declarations and you're already shorter. Then you can actually rewrite it to something less imperative and still shorter.

Do you have any real examples of longer Scala code? I couldn't find any.

[viraptor]

Well downvoting instead of providing an example to the claim is a bit cheap...

[radu_floricica]

As I didn't delve into scala I can't really offer examples. But this was the impression I was left with when reading code samples 2-3 years ago. I think it was collections-related? I know it doesn't make much sense, and I do intend to revisit scala sometimes, but this is the impression me, a novelty-seeking programmer was left with when researching jvm languages.

[Roybatty]

Kotlin will cure the Scala curse. Scala is history...no matter what Odersky and pals try to recover it from. Scala is history...it's time to market and bad perception...adios..

Kotlin will be the successor to Java.

[squidsoup]

Fair enough, s-expressions are foreign to most developers, but dynamic typing? JavaScript/ECMAScript is one of the most widely used languages in the world. Dynamic typing and even first class functions are something most developers should be very comfortable with.

[WildUtah]

>> Java developers are very, very comfortable with static typing and the most advanced IDEs in software development.<<

Java's IDEs just cut down the boilerplate and scutwork involved in dealing with Java. They can even make Java usable. That is, in fact, an advanced and challenging task.

I have discovered that my corner store sells a commercial IDE for Lisp that accomplishes the same thing -- eliminating all the garbage involved in Java programming. It's called a notepad and pen. Combined with a Lisp, it surpasses all the features of Eclipse that eliminate busy work, duplication, and waste.

And it executes code about as fast as a JVM straining under Eclipse, too.