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by autoexec 1455 days ago
I agree that we can't easily make the best choices without a better understanding of the system we seek to change and that each of us has a very limited perspective.

I do think it's hard to make a case that we lack free will if we also want to hold ourselves and each other accountable for the actions we take and for making the kinds of choices that either bring us closer to a more harmonious system or drive us further into disorder.

We must have free will in order to choose to try to consciously shape the system we live in into one that promotes our desired outcomes. We may not understand the universe from all perspectives, but as you say, we can work to learn about perspectives other than our own and the systems we're a part of.

In the case of inner city violence amongst black people, the shooters and victims each have a unique perspective on the situation which gives them a valuable role in helping to solve the problem. That alone means they aren't powerless or absolved from responsibility in being a part of the solution. I'll also agree I think that whatever the solution is, it will involve wider changes than any one of them will be capable of putting into action on their own.

I just worry when I see anyone who broaches the topic get dismissed or accused of racism. In fairness, racists really do love to bring it up, but you can't solve a problem if no one is allowed to mention it and the more we look like we're ignoring it, or pretending the problem isn't real, or that it cannot be solved, or that black people themselves have no role in that solution, the more fuel it lends to racist's arguments.

Generally we need to be more forthcoming about inconvenient truths than we are so they lose power as "gotchas". I think we can do that in this case while still addressing that the problem is more involved than "black people should just stop shooting each other". Because racists tend to be conservative and conservatives obsess over responsibility and punishment, it's good to acknowledge that murders are responsible for their actions (at least to the extent that any of us are) and that the people in those situations have a responsibility to help solve it, just as the rest of us have a responsibility to do our part, as our society has them backed them into a corner.

It doesn't help that racists aren't generally fans of nuance, but I think it's better to meet them halfway by not giving murders a pass, while also trying to let them know that black people aren't the only ones with responsibility for the situation.

1 comments

>We must have free will in order to choose to try to consciously shape the system we live in into one that promotes our desired outcomes

Not necessarily. You have to remember that all human knowledge is standing on the shoulders of those that came before us. It took us such an insanely long time to learn about systems and apply the knowledge to systems that are larger and more complex, including making out own systems that accomplish something for us.

It was only a matter of time that we started realizing that we exist as part of a deterministic system, based on the deterministic laws of the pieces that underlie our material existence.

Applying that knowledge of systems analysis can have greater impact than just making nice tools for us, we can shape the direction of humanity if we communicate and work together.

It's a natural process that has been developing for an incredibly long time, which is something that we generally lack the perspective to appreciate.

The system includes far more than just our actions as humans, more than our politics and its impact on human society. We have the rest of the natural world to contend and reach balance with as well. Our policy interacts with that as well.

When it comes to the way we organize to accomplish things as humans, including government and corporations, the way we have designed these systems excludes certain people based on arbitrary characteristics such as location, language, culture, or wealth/resources. We do have the ability to change these systems so that everyone has a more even say so that more perspectives are taken into account.

That means ensuring everyone have access to equal educational and supportive resources to reduce stress. This is a systemic change that would make it easier for everyone to go about their lives without worrying about things like food and shelter, it lets them participate more fully in society.

If you want to know how another society is doing with holding people accountable when they harm others, the Nordic and Scandinavian countries are doing a great job with rehabilitation. From my understanding of behavior, I think what they're doing is a great step in the right direction that will help society at large.