[shroompasta]

Angular -> React -> Vue -> Svelte -> Solid -> Marko -> Hotwire

Please stop.

The reason why React is so powerful is because of the maturity of React Native.

If you're a startup deciding your FE framework and you have mobile to consider, then chances are that React is best fit.

Unless you have capital to blow on a separate native team, lest it even be more separated to kotlin / swift, then sure you can possibly afford all these niche FE frameworks.

Lets not even talk about hiring pools.

React is good enough, and it's a shame that many of you think the answer is a new framework with better philosophy.

Trust me, I love reactivity > virtual dom, but React is good enough.

It doesn't need to be the best, it just needs to do its job.

The only thing I'll ever consider switching to is when WASM comes out with a framework - till then I'm betting on React.

[Existenceblinks]

React is not good enough. It sucks for both time and space complexity. It's slow, it's bloat. I don't want to tie myself with the word "engineering" for doing software development these days. It's shameful compared to other engineering fields.

[shroompasta]

While I agree that Front End "engineering" isn't as complex as other fields, calling it "shameful" is a bit much.

There is a huge requirement out of web apps today that SPAs are more and more required than your simple html + css blog posts.

Posts like these is where I feel the age of HN, that are becoming bitter about fields that were once very simple, ending up complex to suit the needs of the times.

Everywhere I look around, people on HN feel like we're still in the age of blog posts and form submissions, when in reality, there are people trying to port applications like Photoshop towards the web.

If Photoshop was available on the web, wouldn't you think that the Front End required an honest amount of "engineering"

And it doesn't even have to be a front-end heavy application like photoshop - it could just be a simple chat application that needs to be on the forefront of the site while you can still browse.

You can use whatever framework you'd like to solve your "bloat" issue, but the problem is, especially for startups, you're not going to get anywhere near the hiring pool, nor or you going to have an ease of choice for your native platform.

This is what makes React so strong right now.

I wished you had addressed this, instead of just deriding the entire front end community.

[Existenceblinks]

You are conflating the root comment of this and the OP's point. It's not about SPA. It's about network effect / marketing / cult / lack-principle insanity of frondend or web market that's heavily into React specially.

[shroompasta]

While I agree that React (for the web) isn't the best SPA out there (I would use Solid or Svelte), It's the most practical simply because of the hiring pool and because of React Native.

Sometimes you have to be practical and give up certain areas for the sake of the whole.

I don't even think React is even that bad as you claim it to be, judging from your past posts.

React Native is one of the best things to ever happen to native development, removing the atrocity that is the separation of development of apple and android - one of the most productivity inhibiting factors to a startup out there.

This is why react is so strong.

[Existenceblinks]

I don't think this is called practicality. React is neither even good in practice nor in theory. "Hiring pool" reason is not backing practicality at all. React Native fall into the same "Hiring pool" argument which is not practicality.

[shroompasta]

I take absolutely nothing noteworthy of your comment at all other than that you have a bias that you need to put in check.

[jonwinstanley]

Adding React is a big decision.

You’re adding a lot of complexity to your project which may be unnecessary if you’re app is a simple website with a few interactive elements.

[shroompasta]

Choosing any front end choice is a big decision.

But you're not going to get anywhere near the hiring pool nor are you going to have an ease of choice in native platforms.

React is easily the best decision a startup could make right now.

> If your app is a simple website with a few interactive elements.

lol

[bluewalt]

You're missing the point here. It's not "another framework". It's more like "no framework" at all. Please read: https://edofic.com/posts/2022-01-28-low-js/

[shroompasta]

No you're missing the point.

What's easily the better decision for a startup that has to deal with mobile and native platforms?

I seriously don't know what you people are building that you think low/no js is viable.

Collab tools like Trello Asana need high js

Chat applications need high js

Drafting applications like FanDuel, DraftKings, Sleeper need high js

Music apps like Spotify or Soundcloud need high js

Financial apps like Coinbase or Robinhood need high js

Seriously, what are you people building that you think low/no js is okay.