[medo-bear]

some westerners have this curse of thinking that their government and corporations are always the good guys with best intentions. at least easterners [usually] dont trust either

[rzhikharevich]

Not quite sure about easterners. At least most Russians seem to have entrusted a certain former KGB agent :)

[medo-bear]

i dont think voting for someone into leadership is equivalent to thinking they are nice, good, trustworthy, etc. it could be as simple as no better alternative

[onedognight]

There is no ‘voting’ when the government controls the media and any opposition gaining momentum is inevitably jailed, poisoned or falls out a window.

[medo-bear]

or when there was you just bomb the parliament [0] except that time the west fully supported this brutality. selective democracy?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Russian_constitutional_cr...

[avgcorrection]

GP said that it’s a dictatorship. Now you imply that they chose Putin. Which is it?

[CoastalCoder]

Not sure the GP had this mind, but if Putin won a free election before becoming an autocrat, that would satisfy both constraints.

[medo-bear]

I think the difference is this

Russian Government: We will bomb X because they pose a threat to Russia's interests

American Government: We will bomb X because they need freedom

[kevin_thibedeau]

He had already been appointed to a position where he had the power to rig his first election.

[avgcorrection]

At what point does the democractic mandate run out? He’s been in power for a awhile.

[iostream24]

I think it’s rather that, in a bicameral parliamentary representative democracy one knows that one is ultimately partially responsible for those in office, and one cannot just shrug and blame higher ups.

[medo-bear]

from my personal experience people in the east (and perhaps south) usually look at their rep dem system much more cynically than people in the west (and north). and this attitude is very much reinforced by american patriotism freedom and democracy myth-making. i find its achievements absolutely amazing. how indigenous people and those that not that long ago were subdued into slavery can now be patriotic to the same flag that brought them so much misery is baffling to me

[iostream24]

Well, if you are ultimately responsible for your own government and it’s mess, you realize that it’s a losing proposition to simply be cynical about your government.

Maybe it’s time to fix your government instead of acting disengaged and cynical?

In other news: people in corrupt places have low faith in their systems.

America certainly has its problems and corruption, but if you look at what are considered the least corrupt nations on earth, say Finland, you find higher trust in society and government etc.

So I’ll contend that trauma traumatizes people, aka you are stating a tautology

[iostream24]

Also, your observations about “east” fail to account for places like Japan, South Korea, and in terms of trust, I think you find high trust in places like Singapore, but only from a certain set of empowered locals, ditto Dubai… But your intended generalism is perhaps Eastern Europe?

[unclebucknasty]

EDIT: Earnestness of previous reply underestimated parent commenter's commitment to cynicism. Deleted.

[medo-bear]

ok

[anonymoushn]

Maybe the huge majorities of voters who support m4a and abortion rights should simply have voted!

[curiousgal]

While that is true, let's not pretend that gerrymandering is not a thing.

[iostream24]

But yes, I agree that cynical histories create less trust