[throwaway284534]

IMO the fact that the employees anticipated that layoffs were coming and leadership still didn’t preemptively quell that sentiment means someone already made a mistake. I’m sympathetic to how difficult it can be to relay unpleasant news, but it’s sort of like getting the lifeboats ready before your ship hits the iceberg.

Are MBAs still taught the duties of leadership? Or are they just told to get out with enough cash for their next venture?

[sklargh]

A core tenant of any MBA program is to inculcate a duty to shareholders vs. employees. Your duty of leadership extends as far as it takes to optimize organizational outputs for quarterly goals that move share price up.

[gitfan86]

Employees should take the exact same attitude with their job. Your duty as an employee is to optimize your compensation ( However you define compensation it doesn't have to be just money).

Same thing with honesty. If the employer isn't going to give you advanced notice that you may be fired, you have no obligation to tell them that you are thinking about quitting.

[peterangular]

Agree.

At almost every place I've worked there's this super pervasive "family" notion as-if they wouldn't eject you the moment it was in their best interests. I wish we could drop that pretense - it's just dishonest.

[dvtrn]

Then drop it. I’m serious. If the company wants to do that whole “we are a family” thing, let them.

While you don’t have to be an aggrandizing ass in going about it, you don’t have to reciprocate the “family ties” either.

Be the distant uncle, if you have to (this probably works less the higher up the chain you go, however)

[peterangular]

This is about to be a ton of _personal_ anecdotes that outline why "then just drop it" isn't always as simple as that.

I often use the "office beers" analogy on here to discuss the prevalent requirement of socializing in the workplace these days. To me, I have no interest in knocking off at 2pm on a Friday to participate in office drinking culture and it's 100% screwed me in the past.

To me, I should be able to just work. I have no obligation to go go-karting, to drink with you, to talk at your toastmasters, to go bar crawl on a RAGBRI bus... whatever it may be. I add value by fulfilling my obligation of labor. Not by "team building." And, with that - I feel that if I achieve my deliverables then I should be able to go home and live my private life. Simple.

> Be the distant uncle, if you have to (this probably works less the higher up the chain you go, however)

You are 100% correct - the higher up you want to get the more you have to socialize and pander to the corporate "family." I've found this to be ubiquitous across employers to the point that I prefer more contract/smaller-shop work where it is not as prevalent.

Also, I want to note by being the distant uncle you are often hurting yourself for advancement. You have to go buddy-buddy with folks to get on their radar, and in a sizable team on the west coast there's a good chance one of your colleagues is doing just that with your management. Regardless of output - it's oft the person who has socialized/marketed more that will get the advancement.

Sorry - but in my _personal experience_ it is very much not as simple as "just drop it" in regards to that family pretense. If you even remotely want to "climb the ladder" you must participate at some level...

[dvtrn]

Also, I want to note by being the distant uncle you are often hurting yourself for advancement.

If you don't mind trafficking one personal anecdote for another, I've heard this since I entered the corporate workforce at 19 (got a wee bit lucky there), and in my mid-to-late 30's, I've been demonstrably more protective and distant of the boundaries between work and self

the result in the last six years has been making more money and adding the word "Principal" to my job title.

These are mere anecdotes, I think we've found common ground admitting that much, but I don't think I buy into many of the notions that continue getting harped on about what will and wont "hurt" my career advancement anymore; as most of them have just been means of corralling behavior and only brought me burnout and stress.

[peterangular]

> Are MBAs still taught the duties of leadership? Or are they just told to get out with enough cash for their next venture?

Actively taught or not, capitalism specifically optimizes for the latter.