[thow-58d4e8b]

While that was a rhetorical point in the Brexit campaign, in reality the nameless unelected bureaucrats in Brussels were simply replaced by nameless unelected bureaucrats in London

Every Western "democracy" suffers from the same fundamental problem - entrenched deep state, and a lack of feedback loop towards it. It's extremely hazy where, how and by whom decisions are truly made, and as a consequence, nobody ever faces any consequences if those decisions flop. People like Biden, Harris, Johnson or Truss are so glaringly incompetent that nobody even suspects them to have any input into the decision process, they're simple announcers. Elections allow us to change the announcers, but change nothing about the deep state that ultimately dictates the policies. Brussels works the same way, it's just makes the fundamental problem more obvious

[thenaturalist]

Your statement strikes me as too generalizing and overly simplistic and the conclusion that basically the entire circus of Western democratic parties and elections is meaningless and we're all ruled by an anonymous, malicious class of fellow citizens that somehow want only the worst for us and we're gonna label them the "deep state" is as absurd as it is unnecessarily threatening the freedom we all cherish.

Two or even several things can be true at the same time.

Yes, some decision making transcends legistlative periods of elected officials. Other decisions are actively brought in and executed.

Yes, there is a lack of feedback loop. Sometimes there are public compliance investigations after the fact.

Yes, some politicians are incompetent and have risen due to other qualifications, be it greed, be it communication. Some politicians may just not show their qualifications in the few moments when all the spotlight is on them.

Democracies are imperfect exactly not because there is a centralized hidden agenda going on but because people like you and I with emotions and ego participate in every step of the process.

Yes democracies are painfully slow to respond to change, don't catch all malicious actors in its executive branch and live with an oversized public servant body most of the time, but so help me any spiritual being you might know or believe in I'd choose to live in one any day of the week over autocracies where everything is nicely simple and announced by one, all competent super hero.

I'd recommend watching an annual People Congress of the CCP or how Putler auditions his inner circle and scolds them like school boys and then let's have a talk about the deep state.

[mythrwy]

Yes I agree and this is not all together a bad thing.

We need some stability otherwise fast talking demagogues and mob sentiment would routinely upset the apple cart. The bureaucracy (aka the "deep state") provides that.

But what you point out is also a problem. How do you get rid of corruption and incompetence when they routinely circle the wagons to protect their own and are beyond the reach of the voters? It is a big problem in Western society right now.