[fatnoah]

>Before reaching this "blackhole" state, I can start to feel when I get tunnel vision.... at which point, I distance myself from the problem.

I learned to do this as well after many late nights of making no progress, only to basically solve the issue in the shower or on the way to work the next day.

[itsmemattchung]

I definitely feel its one of the lessons I learn over and over again. The brain has a great way to convince us: "Just a little more longer... you'll figre it out.

Sometimes grit is just NOT the answer.

[bradstewart]

This is so, so true. At this point, I'm not sure it's a lesson I'll ever learn.

Despite experiencing the "shower solution" repeatedly over the years, I still cannot get myself to let go and take a step back until I'm literally too exhausted to continue.

When I'm thinking clearly, it's obvious the optimal answer is "take a break". But when I'm "in the stuck", taking a break seems like the worst possible answer. Every. Time.

[hyperpallium2]

It may be that "being stuck" is "uploading the problem and interconnections"... a necessary pre-condition for the walk, the shower etc to work.

It could be that one is stuck longer than necessary for uploading... or it could be that one is only able to let go when uploading is complete...

What evidence would show which it is?

[bradstewart]

You're on to something here.

If I had some signal that indicated "sufficient information uploaded, algorithm running" it'd be easy to stop. But the (obvious) problem is that signal is, usually, the discovery of the solution. Which happens well after all the being stuck.

There is something comforting about accepting that banging my head against a wall might just be a requirement of figuring the thing out, though.

[hyperpallium2]

"Banging your head" usually means lots of trial and error, that is all error. But beyond uploading information, every experiment creates new information. ("I haven't failed - I've discovered 1,000 ways that won't work!" https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/07/31/edison-lot-results/)

When the search space is exponential, with too many combinations to try, pruning off a branch is enormously helpful (and perfectly harmless... provided the solution doesn't happen to lie on that branch - those are my most stuck times).

One signal is when I can't think of anything else to try - that means I've extracted all the information I can. The trouble is, I'm pretty good at thinking of things to try.

[rendaw]

There have been plenty of times for me where I was like "oh I'll stop for now, hopefully the answer will come in the shower" or while I'm falling asleep or while I'm doing groceries or something, but never does. There goes two weeks, no progress. Eventually I have to sit down, focus, and think.

So it's not a lesson I've learned, but I don't think it's a lesson I should learn either.

[jasonladuke0311]

> At this point, I'm not sure it's a lesson I'll ever learn.

Same here. I’ve found myself going down rabbit holes so ridiculously orthogonal to the actual problem that I was embarrassed for myself.

[itsmemattchung]

There must be some psychological or clinical term for this: to be stuck in some fixated state that prevents forward progress unless a break is actually taken.

[pramodbiligiri]

I've heard it being called Focussed Mode and Diffuse Mode, as described here - https://fs.blog/focused-diffuse-thinking/

Bret Victor links to this book called Psychology of Invention in the Mathematical Field, which talks a lot about this too - http://worrydream.com/refs/Hadamard%20-%20The%20psychology%2...

[wiredfool]

It's one of the themes of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. A book on programming if I've ever read one.

[barrysteve]

We're so convinced consciousness is doing the solving that more is always better.

[datavirtue]

Winner.

[datavirtue]

At the first sign of inhibited progress I go do something else. It's like a reflex action now. It's almost painful how much I have to rely on my subconscious mind to develop software. Conscious mind stops working optimally...have to quit. It's not worth energy expenditure or stress.