[clouded]

The point is obviously to pay less people to do more work. What I don't get is when developers themselves are in favor of it like I constantly see with this devops stuff. There's no way they have any kind of life outside of their job. There's no way they have a wife or children, otherwise I simply don't believe for a second they would be in favor of "developers own all the things yay!".

[moduspol]

> What I don't get is when developers themselves are in favor of it

If you're comfortable with AWS and have built things as a software developer, it becomes clear very quickly. These things are intrinsically linked, and pretending they aren't is just kicking the can down the road until you have to solve some non-trivial problem.

There have been huge innovations and value-adds over the last 10+ years in cloud and serverless, yet everywhere I've worked that silos "DevOps" from devs has already baked in the culture that devs can just avoid knowing anything about AWS, that DevOps will be the gatekeepers, and that devs can just work within the "lowest common denominator" box of tooling that those gatekeepers think is appropriate. Meanwhile, infra costs are skyrocketing but it's all good because we're mostly "cloud agnostic."

I don't want to just be closing Jira tickets. I want to actually solve business problems well. And to do that, I don't want to be constrained to someone else's "box," throwing code over the wall to them, and hoping for the best.

[clouded]

I get paid pretty well fixing bugs and writing code, that stuff you call "just closing Jira tickets" and "throwing code over the wall". It's also enough to fry my brain and leave me exhausted. But it's obviously worth next to nothing in your view. So yeah, I don't care. I can't figure out if you're going to have to find people a lot smarter than me to do what you're looking for, or people a lot dumber than me.

[moduspol]

> It's also enough to fry my brain and leave me exhausted. But it's obviously worth next to nothing in your view.

It's fine up until you have to solve hard problems. Once you need autoscaling or more of a datastore than you can get from vertically scaling a relational database, your brain will be REALLY fried trying to solve those things without touching anything at the Kubernetes or AWS layer.

Or it won't really be fried, because it won't really get solved. That's the pattern I've seen more often: just keep scaling up the CPU and RAM for individual containers / instances because devs can't solve it without DevOps, and DevOps can't solve it without devs. Cloud costs keep going up, and the problem's not really solved, but at least nobody had to understand more than they wanted to.