[flenserboy]

No, they're not. Even if something bad is somewhere in an origin story, that doesn't taint the existence of a thing. Most of the complaining about suburbs comes from people who want people to live bunched together, ant-like lives. Should there be more room for small businesses in and around suburbs? You bet. Encouraging walkability, not having to drive forever to get groceries, etc., is useful. But this push to take away the freedom of people to not live on top of each other is another form of classism, one oriented toward the imposition of suffering rather than toward encouraging freedom.

[BirdieNZ]

> But this push to take away the freedom of people to not live on top of each other is another form of classism

This sounds like a ridiculous straw-man; who's pushing to take away freedom of people to not live on top of each other?

People advocating for suburbs to pay their fair share of taxes, and for less car subsidy, and for less restrictive zoning are not restricting freedom but increasing it.

[cuteboy19]

This is so absurd. Zoning involves so much central planning that it would put the Soviet Union to shame.

Suppose you want to add an extra room to your house on your land that you ""own"" in this system. You would need to go prostrate yourself before some bureaucrat in city hall. Who then inevitably declines that variance because some busybody somewhere thought that it interferes with the ""neighborhood character"".

How can we even say that you own your own land if you are not allowed to build on it as you please? Where is the freedom in any of this?