[uberduper]

I cannot trust critical infrastructure components to 3rd party kubernetes operators. I don't like operators (I didn't write) in general because I find them too opinionated and obfuscated. It's unbelievable to me that someone would deploy a production datastore using one.

[gbartolini]

Can you please elaborate about obfuscation?

Regarding being opinionated I believe that it is what we expect from an operator. An operator simulates what human DBAs in this case would do. I am a maintainer of CloudNativePG, and I have been running and supporting PostgreSQL in production for 15+ years, creating also another open source software for backups (Barman). In CloudNativePG we have basically translated our recipes into Go code and tests.

Many people believe that databases should not run in Kubernetes. I not only believe the opposite, I believe that running Postgres in Kubernetes represents the best way, potentially, to run Postgres out there.

[uberduper]

What I've seen from teams that use operators is that nobody ends up understanding how to manage the situation when something goes awry.

I've run into way too many exotic edge cases with kubernetes to trust an operator to do the right thing with data I care about. Most especially when the operator is also managing the replication and replicas and their underlying storage.

I am pro running datastores and other stateful workloads on kubernetes. I've been running databases on kubernetes since petSets.

[gbartolini]

I agree with your view point and concerns.

That is why we took the approach to reduce the number of components and integrate everything in Kubernetes, especially with logging (we directly log in JSON to standard output) and the usage of application containers, which enables us to cover the case of troubleshooting via the fencing mechanism (your pods are up, you can access storage, but Postgres is down, giving you the possibility to check even possible data corruption issues).

Also, the status is directly available in Kubernetes, so in our view easier for Kubernetes administrators.

Finally, the source code is open source and directly available for inspection - if you want to understand what is happening.

[Johnnyq72]

So, instead of (re-)inventing the wheel, with something like CloudNativePG, I would encourage your team to look into this, perhaps help contribute to better documentation. I believe that would be the way to a) get your project to benefit from using an operator for Postgres (hence scaling / benefitting more and more quickly) and it would b) help a great bunch of other folks to also benefit from that shared knowledge.

[loganloganlogan]

This survey (1) shows that the majority of orgs develop their own operators, perhaps related to what you say here. Do you think industry standards for operators would move things in the right direction?

(1) https://dok.community/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/DoK_Report_...