[swighton]

Interesting design. I made a lock a couple years ago that is quite similar in principle (though this design is different and has a couple nice improvements).

https://youtu.be/_7vPNcnYWQ4

One of my main goals is to be an inspiration, though if it was based by my design I wish they’d credit it. Especially since they’re patenting it.

[harrisi]

The interaction of engineering and "use" by the Lock Picking Lawyer (https://youtu.be/Ecy1FBdCRbQ) was fascinating - "use" here really meaning "exploiting". It's a problem many here are aware of, either by over-engineering things intended for use by non-engineers, or designing things to be used by customers when the designer isn't intimately familiar with the use. In this case it was sort of somewhere in between.

I'm currently an operator of heavy machinery in a factory making tools for the wafer industry, although my main career is in software development. I'm actively working with the tools and software used to get a better understanding of the disconnect between engineering and operations. It's been a great way to consider how to improve tools in ways that aren't just "better" from a software/engineering standpoint.

Also, holy cow. I've watched all of your videos multiple times. You are truly an inspiration. Thank you, and apologies for the fanboying.

[franciscop]

Def want to see Enclave's under Lock Picking Lawyer! If you make a "unpickable lock" you'd def want to send it to LPL, that's like the ultimate proof of how easy/hard it is to pick. The fact that there's no video, with how approachable LPL is and accepts random locks in his PO box, can only be seen as a red flag.

Do it in the open, like Stuff Made Here!

[codezero]

Check out another prominent lock sporter, Lock Noob. He has a recent video where he examines the lock and agrees it’ll be hard to pick.

Unpickable locks aren’t that unique or rare in the community but they tend to be too complex to make it to market at a reasonable price or with the ability to withstand years of wear and tear and still work.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qNHFyc1oMwU

[mlyle]

> The fact that there's no video, with how approachable LPL is and accepts random locks in his PO box, can only be seen as a red flag.

He says he's going to make a small number of prototypes and send them to the locksport community. It's not a "red flag", it's just very early in his design cycle.

[franciscop]

He's selling them at $250, patent pending and is sold out for 20 days ("again"), def sounds like a normal product and not a prototype.

[mlyle]

"Please be aware that this lock is only a demonstration of the mechanism, and cannot be used to secure doors, chains, or anything else. "

It's for locksport and to play right now. There's no ready means to actually... lock something.. with it.

[DominikPeters]

LPL makes few videos with locks where he can't do anything. To me it's not a red flag but more likely a signal that he hasn't found an exploit (yet).

[yebyen]

I definitely remember seeing a design similar to this one not many weeks ago on LPL. I am looking for it now. The video on the landing page shows these little discs which can provide a false set, and a secondary mechanism that opens only when all the pins have a correct set. I am not an expert just watch a lot of LPL so don't take my word for it when I say this is the same design, this may be a completely novel design, but I'm looking for the video, it can't have been long ago...

Edit: ok, it wasn't on LPL, or a similar design at all, it was this lock and it was on Lock Noob, I found this was in my viewing history and it was just recently published, it must be the video I remember: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNHFyc1oMwU (I see this was also linked down thread)

It looks like a very good design! I'd like to see it in front of Lock Picking Lawyer too

[jiveturkey]

It was reviewed a month ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNHFyc1oMwU

[nielsbot]

I think it's just too soon?

[Grimburger]

> that's like the ultimate proof of how easy/hard it is to pick

I would assume there's much better locksmiths on the planet than the most famous one on youtube who does it as a side job.

[brokenkebab2]

LPL is not a locksmith, he practices lockpicking as a sport. And evidently extremely good at it.

[Quequau]

Not only that but he manufactures and sells lock picking equipment and consults on physical security. There's nothing part time about LPL's lock picking any more.

[Fnoord]

Well, we don't know what his main job is, only that he lives in Washington DC. I would assume because of his location that he works for the US government, and that this is the reason he does not want his face on video.

[Grimburger]

Has he won any tournaments? I'm not too familiar with the sport sorry.

[snoopy_telex]

Yes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Avn7ABVHPYk

[PUSH_AX]

True, but it’s also probably excellent marketing if you can get your lock featured and it does well.

[GuB-42]

It is not a side job anymore. He has stopped lawyering to concentrate on security. He launched covertinstruments.com, which sells tools and training.

[permo-w]

whether he does it as a side job isn't really relevant, but I do think that there's a bit of a cult of personality going on here.

he's clearly a good lockpick, but even in a thread that isn't about him, he's somehow dominating conversation and gathering plaudits. I completely agree that being famous doesn't make you the ultimate arbiter of anything

[trompetenaccoun]

Didn't know HN had so many lock experts and lawyers frequenting the site. Dozens of comments have already detected an IP violation, half the thread is recommending ways the lock can be tested or people it needs to be sent to for confirmation of the unpickable claim...

As someone who doesn't know anything about lockpicking, I feel like part of a weird minority here. What do I know but I'd assumed one would take it to a convention or competition where the best lockpickers in the world meet, not a youtuber. Something like this: https://www.wired.com/2014/12/international-competition-mast...

[mypalmike]

> Didn't know HN had so many lock experts and lawyers frequenting the site.

Now you do? They're are definitely lawyers who frequent this site. And lockpicking is a common interest of computer security experts

[orthoxerox]

That youtuber has won his fair share of locksport competitions.

[trompetenaccoun]

Sure. Not saying he's bad at lockpicking. The point is more are you an expert yourself or how do you know he's THE guy to talk to? For reference, what are the main lock picking competitions in the world and which ones has he won? Can you name them?

When I looked it up out of interest, he isn't mentioned as the world expert in actual lockpicking forums. I found a couple of other names but in any way, it makes more sense to have it tested by a group of experts than just a single person. One person may fail, but if an entire convention full of the best lockpickers can't pick your lock, that's a much better indication the lock really is unpickable.

[wruza]

What’s wrong with taking it to a youtuber?

[kebman]

Got a lockpicking set from a friend, and was ... hooked ... ever since. Apparently it's pretty normal among tech / IT types.

[cvccvroomvroom]

I can't be bothered to use YT anymore with all the ads. They're basically interactive, on-demand, corporate TV monetizing other people's content and nothing more. The world needs a co-op video sharing app and a microblogging app.

[pwg]

Just download the videos you want to watch:

https://github.com/yt-dlp/yt-dlp

The only "ads" you get will be the ones the video uploaders encode directly into the video itself. Plus you can watch using whatever playback software works best on your system, instead of the rather feature free JS player youtube provides.

[pengaru]

This is the only way to enjoy youtube without a premium account, and even with a premium account it's still far better to use a proper player like mpv.

But it seems likely to me that YouTube will eventually start embedding the ads more inextricably into the video streams while downloaded. Especially as more people use tools like youtube-dl/yt-dlp to circumvent ads.

[efreak]

They'd have to vary the ad timing to get past sponsorblock, and generating a video for each viewer to do targeting. I can't imagine Google going back to content-based ads after all this time.

https://github.com/yt-dlp/yt-dlp/#sponsorblock-options

[shawnz]

Firefox with uBlock Origin is effective at blocking them.

[MattRix]

You could also just pay for YouTube premium. I subscribed about a year ago and I don’t regret it.

[neop1x]

Same here. Totally worth it.

[Caboose8685]

Using privacy front-ends makes the experience much more tolerable and completely eliminates ads. Then you can directly support your favorite creators via patreon, etc. There's invidious [0] and piped [1], with the major differentiator being that invidious doesn't require JS and piped having sponsorblock built in.

[0] https://invidious.io/ [1] https://github.com/TeamPiped/Piped

[chiph]

Having a PiHole on your network makes it tolerable. But doesn't fix their broken recommendation system.

[Caboose8685]

Pihole can't deal with YT ads because they're served from YT domains.

[msandford]

How so? I have a pihole and the requisite config on my ddwrt router but still get plenty of yt ads.

[dubswithus]

I use Brave to block the ads. Also, Brave has the playlist feature on iOS which is quite nice.

[twobitshifter]

or just pay to avoid the ads?

[mizzao]

For others who might not have seen it, here's what the Lockpicking Lawyer had to say about that.

He picked a lock with the same concept by swighton (Stuff Made Here), but exploited a flaw that had nothing to do with the mechanism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecy1FBdCRbQ

I think one problem here is that the more complicated you make a locking mechanism, the more you suffer by increasing the attack surface with other potential flaws or just the lock being physically weaker (i.e. smashable).

Kinda like how the most advanced cryptography is usually broken because someone made an error in the complexity of implementing it.

[dunmalg]

The other problem with increased complexity is that the more intricate your mechanism is, the more prone to failure due to wear or contamination it becomes. A security measure is only as good as it can remain usable. As a locksmith for working in the industry for 25 years, I've seen a lot of high security designs come and go, and the stuff that sticks is the stuff that's simple and reliable. The fundamental fact of locks and security is that people just don't pick locks much. The vast overwhelming majority of unauthorized accesses are via an acquired key or via bypass attacks on other aspects of the locking hardware than the keyed cylinder.

To put it bluntly, all these fancy pick-proof designs people are coming up with have zero real world utility and are just toys for locksport enthusiasts to play with.

EDIT: and really, I'd say all the patent discussion is moot. A patent is only useful if there's a market for your product. This product has design shortcomings that render it a non-starter for most applications, i.e. no master keying capacity, which makes it useless in any institutional setting, and a design necessity of using critical precision parts that won't handle outdoor exposure well, and a physical size that makes it incompatible with even the largest north american cylinder format. This is a product without a profitable customer base.

[todd8]

Yes, and with more complexity comes more ways to fail to operate properly. I foolishly almost locked myself of my condo. I had a Medeco high security cylinder on the door and the condo was on the 22 floor so it was pretty secure.

Foolishly, I had used the sturdy Medeco key to cut through some packing tape on a package. The gummy adhesive left over on the key wasn’t that noticeable and would probably not interfered with the operation of ordinary pin tumbler locks, but high security cylinders are usually made to tighter tolerances making picking more difficult. In Medeco cylinders the pins have two degrees of motion (up and down and rotation on their long axis). The sticky key likely gummed up the operation of one or more pins so that I couldn’t unlock the door.

A trip to the hardware store for some spray cleaner/lubricant finally got me inside, but for a while I was afraid that the lock would have to be drilled out (difficult because of specially hardened elements designed to thwart drilling).

[throwaway742]

It's the same with digital security. There is always a security/usability tradeoff.

[daniel-cussen]

Part of security is sucking up the consequences of getting locked out.

[jsmith45]

I don't see any fundamental reason why this design could not be master keyed (although it would be more of a pain than with traditional lock designs).

The key spools have a narrow section at the correct position. I see no reason why they could not have multiple narrow sections. The inconvenience is that you would need to stock 10 additional spool types to allow for 2 position opening. (or 6 if key spools are symmetric), and more if you ever need three valid positions for a pin. (These numbers get worse if the system is extended to more than the 5 positions of the prototype).

I'm not sure this is actually all that much more complex, or having more critical precision parts than some of ASSA ABLOY's offerings (like Medeco). The pin-stacks being too tall for standard US cylinder sizes though does seem to be a rather substantial problem.

[hotpotamus]

As usual there's an XKCD that's relevant: https://xkcd.com/538/

I assume that most people know that this is more of a hobby thing (and a cool one), but I also forget that not everyone has demolished a house with a handheld reciprocating saw.

[joshcryer]

I remember being annoyed by the end of that video with the backplate. swighton had already thought of that and machined for a backplate but it was just left out so the LPL could crack into it.

In any case, this guys design I think is a significant improvement over swighton's. swighton made it so that the key triggered the locking mechanism as you pressed it in, this guy made it so that you had to turn the key to test the locking mechanism, as well as adding a multipin stack.

[nynx]

It’s so cool that you’re on HN! I’m a huge fan of your work and it helped me feel comfortable with aiming to be a generalist.

[matthewfcarlson]

Agreed. I’m a firmware engineer and a writer for Hackaday and the Stuff Made Here videos are throughly enjoyed by both crowds.

[ramraj07]

You absolutely should sue them with prior art or something if they patent it. You had an amazing fairly well distributed YouTube video with this design anyway.

[femto]

Anyone here can submit prior art during the patenting process. No suing or courts involved. You only have to care enough to make the submission.

Interestingly, videos don't seem to count? It must be a written description?

https://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s2206.html

[dvdkhlng]

> Interestingly, videos don't seem to count? It must be a written description?

Wondering the same myself. Googeling for this issue turns up this power-point [1] which seems to imply on page 6 that "electronic publications, on-line databases, websites, or Internet publications" are also considered as "printed documents". But this is just a power-point so who knows which standard gets applied in practice.

I get the impression that the "printed document" language got written before digital documents and the internet were a thing.

I am not a laywer, don't know a thing about the topic, this is not legal advice etc.

[1] https://www.uspto.gov/sites/default/files/documents/May%20In...

[femto]

The power point says "Public Use or On Sale" counts. That could be interesting, given that the lock was given to a member of the public, the Lock Picking Lawyer, for a public picking. A convenient case of having a lawyer when you need one!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecy1FBdCRbQ

[elil17]

The examiner is definitely allowed to consider videos but it might not be easy to submit. Video subtitles/transcript, thumbnails, and comments would definitely count though. I would just print to PDF the YouTube video with the transcript sidebar, that should be enough info for the examiners to reject any overly broad claims.

[ramraj07]

Samsung used 2001: space odessey as prior art for fighting iPad patents so not sure if that’s true.

[renlo]

Do subtitles count?

[robmccoll]

Yeah I immediately thought of your work when I saw this. The key insight is the same, even if the implementation is different. Everything you do is fascinating by the way!

[LilBytes]

I didn't know you were here on HN, though it makes absolute sense you would be.

Amazing content, your shows are some of the best YT has to offer.

[thrdbndndn]

Same. One of my fav content creator on YTB.

His shop is also any ME major's wet dream (and he totally earned it!).

[pilaf]

Although I've seen pretty much all of your videos, I'm ashamed to say I couldn't remember your name, so I googled "Andrew Magill" expecting your face to pop up.

[throwaway14356]

I loved the way the puzzle was presented in that video and loved the partial solution. It has been consuming idle brain cycles eversince.

First we should proudly make the key flat as security by obscurity is not done. We should solve the problem for real and it has to be easy to manufacture.

The real idea: put a tube around the cylinder. after rotating the cylinder by 45 deg it drags the tube along.

  [cylinder][ tube ][case
   key]||||||||[   ][     ]////
  [cylinder][ tube ][case

you have a pin in the tube with small discs on the key side. The inner cylinder can rotate freely for 45 degrees at which point it drags the tube along IF the pin is in the correct position thereby testing the correctness of the key used therein all pins simultaneously.

different keys can be had by changing the number of discs. No machining required.

Have fun

[throwaway14356]

Extra funny would be a second tube with a clock mechanism that delays a second attempt if the wrong key is used.

(Going to implement that one on all my enter password pages.)

[junkieradio]

Just want to say I absolutely love your channel and it's been a huge source of motivation to work on my own hardware projects in the past, I eagerly await your next video!

[Sporktacular]

This could be worth fighting for. If another maker uses your work to build and share an improved lock, as you did, this guy could try suing them for that, as though the basis for their work was his, ruining the spirit of openness and stunting any resulting improvement in lock design.

It might be a struggle to prove prior art but you might have enough sway to be able to find a pro-bono lawyer, and/or publicly pressure or embarrass him into compromising. Patreon would almost certainly help with costs too.

Seriously, you have a tremendous amount of credibility in maker/engineering communities, among others. Thank you very much for doing what you do.

[beckingz]

While I cannot comment on your lock video, your chainsaw CNC video has inspired me to never use a chainsaw again. Good stuff.

[sixQuarks]

As others have already said, you’re a huge inspiration.

I was trying to find interviews that you’ve done to learn more about how you came To know so much, but it looks like you’ve never really done any interviews. Any reason why?

[swighton]

I’m not all that interested in advancing my personal prominence. This is why I originally didn’t even show myself in the videos

[amelius]

His page says "patent pending" near the bottom. Would your work count as prior art?

[exabrial]

I actually thought this _was_ you under a different name.

[elil17]

You can use a third party pre-issuance submission to ensure that the parent examiner considers your work as prior art during the application process. There’s no fee to file the first three documents you want to the examiner to consider. This will ensure he doesn’t get a patent which could be construed to block you from building your lock design.

[jtmlis]

Is it just me, or are the improvements the ones you mentioned in your react video?

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjVS-g_ss84 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CWsA22H35Y

For those that did not watch it. The lock was left to be pickable on purpose. The improvements were purposely left out so LPL could pick the lock for entertainment purposes.

[grecy]

I watched your YT grow from just a few thousand to what it is now, and I've seen every video.

You are a HUGE inspiration to me, slowly growing past 55,000 subs.

Thanks for the amazing videos and inspiration!!

[rocqua]

Your videos were my first thought uppon reading this article. Even the formulation of 'seperating input from testing' matches your video.

[Omin]

What is the drawing software used at e.g. 3:50 in the video? https://youtu.be/_7vPNcnYWQ4?t=230

[Youden]

Concepts: https://concepts.app/en/

[loganc2342]

I’d say you’ve certainly succeeded in your goal to be an inspiration. Nothing makes me want to build something awesome more than watching your videos!

[nicbou]

I didn't expect to see you here! You are undoubtedly an inspiration, at least to me. I love your content. It makes me want to build stuff!

[YeBanKo]

Could you submit your work as prior art?

[chaostheory]

Love your videos! Of course you’re on HN