[causasui]

Yeah but my ancestors natural human history circle of life top-of-the-food chain indigenous people crop deaths protein deficiency b12 free-range cage-free humanely-killed cow overpopulation lions and gazelles moral relativity plants feel pain canine teeth bacon is delicious though

[uxcolumbo]

Ha… good one… seems you dealt with this topic many times before.

Add slaughterhouse workers and PTSD to the mix.

[cheese_goddess]

You guys are so eloquent and persuasive, it's incomprehensible why everyone has not joined your ranks already.

Btw, congratulations for sneaking real problems like B12 and other nutrient deficiencies suffered by vegans in with all the straw men:

> Most vegans show adequate B12 levels to make clinical deficiency unlikely but nonetheless show restricted activity of B12 related enzymes, leading to elevated homocysteine levels. Strong evidence has been gathered over the past decade that even slightly elevated homocysteine levels increase risk of heart disease and stroke and pregnancy complications.

https://www.vegansociety.com/resources/nutrition-and-health/...

My bingo card says: "Typical irresponsible dismissal of the health risks of a vegan diet".

[causasui]

None of those are straw men; I've heard every single one, including one of my favorites "cow overpopulation" from you "cheese goddess" specifically.

The same way plenty of farm animals are supplemented with b12 for later human consumption, it's mindlessly easy to get the adequate amount of b12 in a vegan diet. Tons of vegan food come fortified, and if not, a 1000mg supplement once a week couldn't be simpler.

Both the American Dietetic Association[0] and British Dietetic Association[1] confirm that a well-planned vegan diet is healthy for all stages of life.

_My_ bingo card says: someone whose entire life and identity has been in animal agriculture takes personal umbrage to the notion that their lifestyle is immoral and destroying the planet.

[0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19562864/ [1] https://www.bda.uk.com/resource/vegetarian-vegan-plant-based...

[cheese_goddess]

Who is that "somoeone whose entire life and identity has been in animal agriculture"? I work in IT. I chose my username because I make cheese as a hobby.

btw, when did I say anything about "cow overpopulation"? I don't even know what that is?

Oh, wait. Of course. It's a straw man. Nevermind.

> Both the American Dietetic Association[0] and British Dietetic Association[1] confirm that a well-planned vegan diet is healthy for all stages of life.

The key words being "well-planned". As the Vegan Society says, most vegans have low homocysteine levels which is a clear indication that their diets are not "well planned" and put them in danger of heart disease, stroke and pregnancy complications, at least.

That is "most" vegans, in the words of the Vegan Society.

Then of course there's the vegans who feed their kids vegan diets without any planning at all and end up damaging their kids' health, or killing them:

> In 2002, a vegan couple from New Zealand was accused of child abuse after ‘failing to provide the necessities of life’ for their six-month-old child. Their son died of medical complications due to vitamin B12 deficiency after the parents left the hospital against medical advice to treat their son with herbal remedies (23). In addition, seven infants exclusively breastfed by vegan mothers developed nutritional vitamin B12 deficiency. Most of these children presented with hypotonia, lengths and weights below the third percentile, and psychomotor retardation that improved with the appropriate nutritional supplementation (24).

> As recently as 2005, despite the significant available literature on the potential risks of alternate diets, strict vegan parents were taken to court and charged with neglect after one of their children died of malnutrition (25). Their other four children were all found to be below the lowest appropriate percentile for height and weight for their age. These parents avoided taking their children to see physicians and the children were not immunized.

https://europepmc.org/article/PMC/2528709

So, well-planned diets, my foot. Most vegans have no idea what to do to stay healthy while eating their preferred diet. And do you know why? Because irresponsible internet vegans like you try very hard to hide the fact that a vegan diet is a health risk. The Vegan Society at least is honest about that:

> The risk to these groups alone is reason enough to call on all vegans to give a consistent message as to the importance of B12 and to set a positive example. Every case of B12 deficiency in a vegan infant or an ill informed adult is a tragedy and brings veganism into disrepute.

https://www.vegansociety.com/resources/nutrition-and-health/...

My guess is that this is because those folks care deeply about their principles and don't just use them as a bludgeon to win internet arguments, like you guys.

[causasui]

People suffering from poor health because of a shitty diet is not a uniquely vegan phenomenon. Heart disease kills more people in the US than anything else and a poor diet plays a massive role in that. Talk about a straw. man.

[cheese_goddess]

So we agree that a vegan diet is just another shitty diet that carries a risk of heart disease (also stroke and pregnancy complications), just like other shitty diets. And just because other diets are also shitty and unhealthy, doesn't change the fact that the vegan diet is a shitty, unhealthy diet and that people should be warned of the health risks inherent in it.

Agreed. 100%. What straw man?