[Gnob]

Oh ofc, one should never take such a thing so kindly, only the Muslims in the west should respect the cultures and the traditions and learn religious tolerance. weird how the westerners actually don't tolerate others and it's you either agree with me or you're an enemy sort of attitude.

I thought this attitude usually stems only from these hateful religious zealots who refuse to "integrate" or "tolerate" others.

[rg111]

Westerners have problems with themselves being forced to do things they don't want.

Muslims have problems with others eating pork or having premarital sex. Or how MAGA people and Muslims both have problems with others being gay or lesbian.

Westerners don't force immigrants Muslims or others Muslims to have pre-marital sex, but Muslims force Westerners to not have pre-marital sex.

Westerners will tolerate or won't pay attention at all if Muslims or whatever other group are abstaining from pre-marital sex, but Muslims won't tolerate Westerners having pre-marital sex.

The sole focus is on living and letting live, and not forcing anything on others.

Liberalism is about tolerating people different from you. And it should go both ways.

(By Muslims, here, I mean, practising, Sunnah abiding, conservative Muslims. I do not mean to pigeonhole.)

[Gnob]

> Liberalism is about tolerating people different from you. And it should go both ways.

No it should not, Islam isn't liberal, nor it is some conservative nationalistic ideology. It's a religion, a strict one.

When people tolerate your set of ideas about life you should tolerate theirs too, unless you'd be fine with Muslims pushing Islam down your throat in your country, or well do you accept allowing Muslims to marry 4 women in your country? It's all done with consent tho, nothing is forced really, so will you support that? it's personal for us, is it not? I accept to be properly executed by the terms specified in Islam if I commit intentional -ps. first degree- murder, and If for any reason I do that to a Muslim his family might rightfully ask for me to be executed, and if they end up not accepting money or forgiving me, who are you ( by your own standards ) to step in and tell me and them that this is wrong? by what logic will you do that? that if you actually care to be consistent here and go to the fullest with the "it's personal" thing.

Will you support allowing Muslims in your country to practice sharia law? including public executions for murderers, kidnappers etc? as far as the majority of them agree and ask for that? isn't this how democracy basically works? isn't this their "personal preference" for a ruling model as a group of people? or do you want to "STOP THEM" from getting their rights which they will all give consent to and agree on?

there is no such thing as "personal" because society is..? you guessed, yes, people, any sexual relationship outside Islam is forbidden, you disagree? feel free to leave or not to come, you don't have any right to bend the rules or force people to accept your ideas unless we have the same right to bend your rules in your own country, which is apparently not the case, if you plan on bringing Kamala Harris or any such figure such as any gay / feminist selfproclaimed Muslim, please don't.

Muslims aren't fond of living in a police state, there are actual recommendations against spying and doxxing or intentionally policing people to punish them, and originally if you admit a sin in the court and ask to be punished the actual response from the judge should be to refuse punishing you unless you keep asking 3 times afaik.

I am not an expert so take my word with a grain of salt, I might be wrong about some of the details but the general idea is how it should be.

And that is about the matters ( sins ) between people and God, hence when it's not related to hurting others.

That is the rule for the Muslims, for the nonMuslims I am not sure. But my point is, liberalism might make sense to you, for me, and lots of other people, secularism doesn't make any sense, unless you can come up with a reasonable explanation for how the universe was created without an intelligent creator, and any theory that would say it came out of nowhere, it makes no sense to me, yet I don't think I should force my ideology on you, you on the other hand, want to either force your ideology onto others or call them names.

once I can have all my sharia rights preserved in the USA or the west because I am a Muslim and that is my right, I will support LGBTQ+ rights in Islamic countries ( just a metaphor to state I will never do same as the USA or any secular state will never give the Muslims any rights besides of what they decide to be their rights ).

We also have the right to decide what rights the LGBTQ+ get and which rights they don't, or do we not? Because you think you're the only one entitled to do that?

Hope this clarifies the situation.

[ Edit ]: Sorry for the text-wall, I hate doing that but I had to.