[iLoveOncall]

> Bitcoin does not exhibit any of the ponzi shenanigans

Really? How do you call something where there is no underlying product generating value, and you need to have someone else put money in to get your money out? It's literally the definition of a ponzi pyramid.

[hardmoney99]

Bitcoin is voluntary. The goal is better money. If you take on that big of a challenge, you kinda need people to participate with their "old" money. It's called adoption. Just like internet would have no value if nobody participated, bitcoin has no value if nobody participates. Do you send email to yourself? No. Do you shop from a non-existing platform? no.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

>Bitcoin is voluntary

Scams can be voluntary.

>The goal is better money

There is no clear path to that goal.

>If you take on that big of a challenge, you kinda need people to participate with their "old" money.

"Old" as in the USD?

>Just like internet would have no value if nobody participated, bitcoin has no value if nobody participates.

Unlike the internet you can only trade bitcoins. You cant use them for anything else.

[olalonde]

> Scams can be voluntary.

I disagree, a scam must involve some level of deception.

[Lionga]

"My Ponzi" is voluntary. The goal is better money. If you take on that big of a challenge, you kinda need people to participate with their "old" money. It's called adoption. Just like internet would have no value if nobody participated, "My Ponzi" has no value if nobody participates. Do you send email to yourself? No. Do you shop from a non-existing platform? no.

[Nursie]

> The goal is better money.

Except when someone points out it's terrible at that, its goal magically becomes something else. Which it's probably terrible at, and then the goal shifts again.

[hardmoney99]

You're confusing money with currency. Bitcoin is excellent money, the best there is. Currency? not so much due to current fluctuations. With adoption that will subside, so will the yields, and it may start behaving more like currency (or not). It's quite possible it becomes money but not currency with something like a stable coin taking place of currency. That doesn't mean that it won't try or won't make it. When you try to take on the entire finance system of the world, it's obviously going to take time and we may not see the fruit's of Satoshi's labor in our lifetime. The last block is not mined until 2140.

For anyone else reading these comments, HN will not let me reply to all of your as I'm posting too fast. I would love to reply to every comment here. All very valid concerns and criticisms, although misplaced, deeply misunderstood. I don't blame you. If I were a skeptic of something, I would probably not put 1000 hours of educating myself on that subject. I am not here to convince anyone of anything. Don't buy bitcoin. In fact, buy the short ETF out (today?) if you are so convinced it's not going anywhere positive. I really don't care. It would be great if more people were less emotional about Bitcoin just because it has monetary properties and seems like a ponzi, and actually took the time to think about it more deeply - but I understand that you're busy and would rather dismiss it. Fine by me.

Proshares etf to short bitcoin: https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/BITO Vote with your conviction.

[Nursie]

> You're confusing money with currency.

No, you're using nonsense distinctions that come from the 'Austrian school', that you think make you smart and you believe gives you an understanding of economics denied to most people, even those who study economics to a high level and make careers in that space. Unfortunately it's a patchwork of old and poor ideas that don't really hold up.

By the way I love the condescending addendum, sure, the only reason that anyone could possibly be negative about Bitcoin is that they haven't learned enough about it. LOL.

> Vote with your conviction.

Any move into the manipulated casino that is cryptocurrency is a bad move.

[hardmoney99]

> No, you're using nonsense distinctions that come from the 'Austrian school', Do you have an actual rebuttal to anything I've said or will you resort to emotional and ideological attachment to what others have decided for you?

>By the way I love the condescending addendum, sure, the only reason that anyone could possibly be negative about Bitcoin is that they haven't learned enough about it. LOL.

Another reason people might view Bitcoin negatively is because they let others think for them (reaching flawed, uneducated conclusions, passed down onto you).

Or conflict of interest. Financial privilege. Not biting the hand that feeds you. Fitting in with your peers who have the same herd mentality. Take your pick.

[Nursie]

> Do you have an actual rebuttal

I don't need to. Actual mainstream economics is that rebuttal. The Austrian school is a discredited joke.

Most of your points are emotional and idealogical - you call other cryptocurrencies "shitcoins", despite them being technically identical in many cases and superior in some.

> Another reason people might view Bitcoin negatively...

It's funny, you can't even conceive that someone could understand it and come to the conclusion that it's not a perfect miracle handed down directly from saint satoshi, and then you call identical cryptocurrencies "shitcoins", perhaps you don't understand them well enough?

BTC is the same as the others, it just has the big name. They're all shitcoins, I simply understand that about one more coin than you do.

[immigrantheart]

> Bitcoin is voluntary

This is the single most important paradigm that will set crypto believers vs non believers. Either you get it or not. There is nothing in between.

If non believers don't get this one, then there is no point in explaining.

[scotty79]

Key factor of Ponzi is that it guarantees you high (height arbitrarily made up by scheme organizer) periodic return on your investment and promises you get your money back eventually.

Bitcoin makes no such promises. It routinely had >80% drops in price.