[sshine]

> how they can know?

This reminds me of the American boy who stole a poster in North Korea, after which he was imprisoned and presumably tortured for 15 months, and died a week after returning home, after having been in a coma for a year: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40335169

I could fear a few football fans are going to end up in the Qatari prison system because they don't understand that the consequences of their actions are different than in their home country. After all, how can they know?

[baisq]

A 22 year old is a boy now?

[sshine]

Yes.

Simone De Beauvoir said "One is not born a woman, but becomes one".

The idea is that "man" and "woman" are social roles you gradually grow into as you increase your responsibility for yourself and others. Things that may contribute towards becoming a man or woman are: Becoming a parent, becoming financially independent, becoming emotionally mature, participating in society on the level of your fellow grown-up peers, becoming fully grown.

We will also use the term "young man".

https://www.regain.us/advice/general/at-what-age-does-a-man-...

> Some mental health professionals do not uphold the notion of age-based maturity. They assert that maturity has more to do with your background, values, and even biology than years alone. How you mature and the things you consider mature will vary based on your raise, neurological development, and cultural framework. Some cultures value autonomy more than emotional depth, and maturity will be marked by the ability to take care of oneself. Other cultures value emotional depth, and dependence is not seen as a pitfall but a lack of emotional intelligence.

[dotancohen]

My seven year old changes the oil (I loosen the oil filter and remove the drain plug after he's told me to), works with (real) hammer and nails, and traverses overgrown hills without slowing down his infantry-serving father's pace. Is he a man at seven?

Or for that matter, my neighbor's six year old herds the sheep all day in the sun, unattended. He is responsible to bring his own food and water, and tend to the sheeps' needs such as food and water, and actively herding them. Is that six year old a man?

How is a 22 year old person who crosses an ocean and gains admittance to one of the most secluded nations on earth, by way of other nations, considered a boy?

[sshine]

> Is [my son] a man at seven? Is [my neighbor's son] a man at six?

No, a seven year old is not even close to being neurologically or physically mature. If your son happens to be a dog, even though he this is 6 x 7 = 42 human years, "man" usually refers to the human species only, but in this case I'd be willing to call him a dog-man.

There is a legal definition of "adult" which is somewhere between 16 and 21 depending on the age of majority in the country you live in. [1] I am not disputing that a 22 year old American is, by default, a legal adult, and I don't think you believe that this is what we're arguing about.

> How is a 22 year old person who crosses an ocean [...] considered a boy?

By not having finished their development physically, neurologically, emotionally, and socially.

https://bestlifeonline.com/age-adult/

"What we're really saying is that to have a definition of when you move from childhood to adulthood looks increasingly absurd," Peter Jones, Professor of Psychiatry and Deputy Head of the School of Clinical Medicine at the University of Cambridge, told the BBC. "It's a much more nuanced transition that takes place over three decades."

Jones admits that the age at which someone becomes an "adult" is different for everyone, but indicates that it would be inaccurate to call someone in their twenties an adult because they're still going through a lot of brain development. "There isn't a childhood and then an adulthood. People are on a pathway, they're on a trajectory," he said.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_majority

[baisq]

Young man sounds okay to me. But boy? For a 22 year old? That's downright manipulative.

[Agamus]

Based on everything I have seen over my lifetime (~50 years), the answer is yes.

At this point, it should be clear to all that we need to raise the age to purchase alcohol, tobacco, firearms, and to vote. I'm saying this as someone with who tends to lean strongly in favor of individual rights.

Either that, or acknowledge that these laws have very little to do with public health and safety, and more to do with profit and taxation.

[l33t2328]

I think so.