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by DiggyJohnson 1458 days ago
Sometimes I wonder if the core problem of this disagreement depends on the certainty of our understanding of information - how it works and scales.

This isn’t a strong rebuttal to this paper, though I read it closely, enjoy both sides of the mind-body problem, and do my best to seek some sort of external truth in the matter…

But I’m inclined to disagree with Jaron on the following point: What if the contents of the mind (consciousness notwithstanding for a moment), which surely must include information or data, doesn’t represent the complete anatomy of the systems involved in the mind-body problem. What if subjective experience is an objective realization of some sort of a information-vitality singularity.

Then we could not be confident that the argumentation (mainly the metaphors) in this paper accurately model reality - at least as far as I can tell.

And that’s really it: What if the mind-body problem, with its dual objective/subjective complexities, cannot be modeled until we first understand consciousness. Put differently:

What if we can’t model the M-B problem until we first solve it.

Perhaps objective experiment? Some sort of truly demonstrable proof by induction? Whatever gets us away from abstracting the problem itself. In the meantime, I’m fond of some of the various theological approaches. And if I was put to the question, my bet is that this answer is unknowable.

I’m not sure if I’m a zombie? I’d rather be a cynical zagnet; I certainly don’t think that subjective experience does not exist.

I ought to buy anyone who reads through this comment a drink. Here lies my knee jerk reaction. Thanks for posting, and thank you to Jason for giving me a bit to chew on.

1 comments

I don't think we can scientifically solve the mind-body problem either. Scientifically, we've been able to pile up some evidence against the brain being remote-controlled through an extremely simple, uni-faceted direct channel of instructions. We're also able to demonstrate that the physical has a profound effect on the mental, which anyone with a source of drugs could have told us millennia ago.

Speaking of, I'll take you up on the offer for a drink.

I tend to think something like a combination of the 3rd substance and panpsychism model accounts for our experience in context of discoveries that make descartes pineal gland theory seem dubious.

Thanks for the reply! And yes - if you end up within 100 miles of Charleston, SC, I quite seriously will oblige.

Thank you for your comment. I haven't engaged much with "3rd substance and panpsychism" much, so that'll be on my procrastinating reading list this week. I'm writing a book about Why We Play certain games, and I'm always tempted by the rabbit hole that is M-B problem.

Maybe thinking about the M-B is one of the things that distinguishes Man?

Thanks for wading through, I'd have bet dollars to donuts I wouldn't get a response. Cheers :)