[BlargMcLarg]

You need to put more nuance on what a "willing partner" means, as it's incredibly important. Many stories I hear regarding "willing partner left aside for porn" boil down to a passive person expecting their partner to just pick up on clues while having a history of being denied and making zero effort to overcome it. Or worse, a passive, submissive person expecting men to just push their way through any resistance and keep trying, when men are actively taught to respect a woman's boundaries.

For many of these "porn addiction" cases, there's more going on than just "he is addicted to porn and now he won't have sex with me". Communication is a two-way street and women are a little eager to play the 'passive princess who can do no wrong' without realizing most of society is training men to avoid making assumptions.

[corrral]

> Or worse, a passive, submissive person expecting men to just push their way through any resistance and keep trying, when men are actively taught to respect a woman's boundaries.

Not to go into too much detail, but I've had to seriously recalibrate my "respect women" upbringing to make my wife happy. And I'm not even talking sub/dom stuff or outright rape-fantasy things like I've heard tell of from my (somewhat shell-shocked) unattached and actively-dating friends.

Sex is weird.

[whynotminot]

I have to admit this part is hard for me to process. I know on an intellectual level that real life and fantasy are different things.

But it's really hard to hear all day long from every source how terrible men are, and how we need to be gentler creatures.

And then a shocking percentage of women actually do seem to want you to be that animal they decry as soon as you get into the bedroom.

[blindmute]

You are unfortunately a victim of propaganda; many men today are. Women did not magically in the last 50 years override all biological instinct and traditional desires that they have had for millennia, even though media would like you to believe otherwise

[ImPostingOnHN]

whenever someone says "the media" has a single monolithic view, it seems to be that person demonstrating a persecution complex

I've seen tons of "the media" contradicting your point, but I guess if you said "some people say this, others don't", your point wouldn't be as compelling

[blindmute]

I said media, not "the media". And like my post would indicate by saying media, the large majority of popular media does just what I've said. Can you point out any popular media outlet that advocates for traditional gender roles? How about any targeted toward under 30s? Because I can point out literally dozens of unique, popular publications such as HP, WP, Vox which have published articles of the reverse viewpoint.

Whenever someone pretends that modern mass media is not overwhelmingly in favor of the current zeitgeist, it seems to me that person is either arguing in bad faith, or is startlingly naive. Finding one minute counterexample of a publication that no one has ever heard of does not imply an overall balanced media landscape. It would be as strange as arguing that western 'the media' doesn't support Ukraine over Russia; just absurdly incorrect to a cursory inspection.

[ImPostingOnHN]

> Can you point out any popular media outlet that advocates for traditional gender roles? How about any targeted toward under 30s?

yes, literally dozens, like fox, OANN, breitbart (I will happily continue to follow suit if you want to as well)

> Whenever someone pretends that modern mass media is not overwhelmingly in favor of the current zeitgeist

modern mass media is a product of the people, who determine the zeitgeist, so it is pretty unsurprising that the attitudes of media overall reflect the attitudes of people overall

similarly, we would obviously expect to see less content advocating extreme views that society largely rejects like "all abortion should be illegal", compared to content conforming with social norms

but let's get off this tangent and back on topic: whether you say "the media" or "media", my original response remains true: "media" says plenty to the opposite of what you claim it says, and you're simply cherry picking observations that fit your own narrative around "media" itself

but I guess "media says this sometimes, and sometimes the opposite" doesn't make for as compelling of a narrative

[BlargMcLarg]

This is very common, which is why I called out the other commenter. Sex is complicated, fantasies even more so. Men are pushed to be less proactive and more reactive, but women are still primarily passive when it comes to working these things out. It certainly is 'safer' for society to not have every guy be proactive, but it creates a lot of mismatches in sexual expectations partners have of one another.

That's not to mention the onus of taking charge is still put onto men, while men are actively punished for making a mistake, and women tend to get off without social repercussions despite continuing to play passive. We're already seeing the cracks forming.

[aiisjustanif]

It’s worth pointing out that women may have higher rates of their testosterone levels being lower compared to men because of birth control, stress, or sleep.