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by manojlds 1466 days ago
HN is not user friendly. Better comparison is Stack Exchange which is way more rich and runs on small (relative) infra.
10 comments

HN is perhaps the most user friendly site I go to with regularity.

The idea that a website needs to be “rich” to be usable is one of the dumbest things the industry has convinced itself of in the last 20 years (following only ‘yaml is a smart way to encode infrastructure’).

To be fair, it's not as much user-friendly as it is simple, and simple tends to be easier to understand.

For example, if it was more user-friendly, it could have links to jump between root comments, because right now very popular top comments tend to accumulate most interactions, and scrolling down several pages to find the next root thread requires effort.

Is that not what the "prev"/"next" links do?
User on this account since 2010, 12K karma, and I just learned what next does.

TY!

Duck me sideways, they were always there, but I was blind.
Compulsive over-engineering is by no means an IT-centric problem.

It takes substantial wisdom to arrive at an 80% solution and cease fannying about.

And the people that brings this wisdom also brings few or no metrics that are appreciated by management.
The people who push the other direction also bring few or no metrics. I.e. there is often no reason to add <bag of features>, except a customer (who didn't buy the product yet) mentioned them as nice to have during initial sales talks.
I prefer YAML to JSON for our infra. I know some people do not like the whitespace.

What do you prefer?

JSON:

* doesn't encode Norway to false;

* most formatters for JSON are deterministic.

* doesn't deserialize into arbitrary objects;

YAML, in in constrast...

* YAML is insecure by default and will deserialize into arbitrary objects;

* YAML knows that there's no such thing as wall clock time, there's only number of seconds since midnight;

* YAML has 22 ways of writing true or false, and the parser will silently replace your "strings" with false.

* There are 63 ways of writing multi-line strings;

* A truncated YAML file is still a "valid" YAML file.

https://noyaml.com/

IMO the solution to YAML-as-config is a strict subset of YAML.

JSON is one strict subset, but one that makes smart trade-offs for strictness and machines like error detection and syntax-typed types.

We decided on a different subset of YAML for our users that were modifying config by hand (even more strict than StrictYAML). Some of the biggest features of YAML are that there is no syntax typing, and collection syntax is simple (e.g. also true for JSON, false for TOML).

For example, a string and a number look the same. This seems bad to us developers at first, but the user doesn't have to waste 20 min chasing down an unmatched quote when modifying config in a <textarea>. Beyond that, it's the same amount of work as making sure the JSON is `"age": 20` instead of `"age": "20"`, one just has noisier syntax.

I think the StrictYAML docs have a great breakdown of the advantages: https://hitchdev.com/strictyaml/why-not/

We decided against TOML because nesting is too confusing. https://github.com/toml-lang/toml/issues/846

Declarative code. CSS is better than YAML for describing a desired state.
Not on mobile.
Thanks for the downvotes everyone, else wouldn't have even known there were so many replies to my comment.
>Stack Exchange which is way more rich and runs on small (relative) infra.

Yes, I've heard that SO runs on relatively simple and modest infra. And agree that would be a good example.

>HN is not user friendly

How so? I find the HN UX a refreshingly simple and effective experience. It might not have all the bells and whistles of newer discussions fora, but it doesn't obviously need them. I'd say it's a good example of form/function well suited to need. Not perfect perhaps, but very effective.

YMMV of course.

Try loading it on a 2G (2 bars = 128kbits per second — those are bits not bytes) connection. It loads almost instantly with no fuss. Now try loading virtually any site on the same, if it ever loads at all without timing out, you’ll be waiting over 10 minutes.
There was a YT preso from several years back where the StackExchange founder explained how it ran off just ~10 servers, and could run on half that many if needed. He stressed the simplicity of their arch, and that their problem space was massively cachable, so the servers just had a few hundred GB of ram, and only had to do work to rerender pages, but could store them in cache most of the time. It was a C#.Net app.

So, I think there is a lot more in common than you think between HN and SO.

What about HN is not user friendly? I think it's a breath of fresh (stale?) air.
My pet peeves: No dark mode, sorely lacking for me for reading in the dark, then there is no indication at all that you've got replies (at least a tiny number next to threads perhaps?) and the up/downvote buttons are too small to reliably tap on mobile. Oh, and enumeration support would be fantastic, the workarounds tend to be hard to read.

Other than that, I think it's delightfully ugly and lightweight.

I use the Dark Reader extension for Firefox; HN looks fine under that.

Having to separately configure individual sites or web apps for dark mode is a nonstarter anyway; if you could do that, would you really want to?

Ideally, you should be able to set your device to dark mode, and everything would follow: every app, every site in the browser.

Some combination of setting your OS to dark mode and using a dark mode extension in the browser sort of approximates that, imperfectly.

No need to set it per individual page. There are (arguably easy to use) ways for a web page to know the user's OS-level color scheme preference [0].

We still need the workaround via extensions or Userstyles for the ones that don't implement that, sadly.

[0] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/@media/pref...

You may not be down for an app/mobile experience, but Harmonic is beautiful and has a dark mode
I can't seem to find Harmonic in the iOS App Store, is it Android-only?

Also, HN apps tend to make it harder to send interesting things to Roam or the laptop or Safari's reading list, the website makes that really convenient.

Thanks for the recommendation, just switched to it!
I believe the internet term is dank air.
Yeah! I really miss all those ads (not!)
I agree HN could be improved with small CSS changes, but no backend change would be required.
Well the good thing with CSS is that you can override it with your own stuff locally if you wish to
Tough to do when the entire layout is built with nested tables, like it's still 1999.
Tougher to do on mobile though
How does anyone use anything aside from Materialistic?!
I wouldn’t say it’s not user friendly but I understand where you are coming from. I also missed some more modern features/looks and decided to build my own open source client [0]. Feel free to give it a go to see if it’s more your taste!

0. https://modernorange.io

I love Hacker News. It is very friendly to my phone.
By rich do you mean popping up a captcha every time I search for something?