[olaulaja]

If consciousness is binary like you state, we can hypothetically remove parts of it until we reach some arbitrarily small part after the removal of which the remainder is no longer conscious. This seems like a very weak argument to me, implying the opposite conclusion that consciousness must be on a sliding scale.

(measuring the level of consciousness is left as an exercise to the reader)

[denton-scratch]

Hmmm. You seem to be talking about progressive removal of parts of the brain, until consciousness is no longer manifested.

But that experiment is founded on the assumption that the root of consciousness is the brain; and that consequently, consciousness can be subdivided, like the brain, until there's very little left.

But I contend that that begs the question: it assumes that the root of consciousness is material, and it assumes that consciousness is divisible. So you have made assumptions that are incompatible with consciousness being fundamental and indivisible.

That is: it's not surprising that you disagree with me, because you've assumed that I'm wrong.

[GoblinSlayer]

The animal world presents varying degree of consciousness from worms to humans. That's apparently evidence that consciousness is a spectrum.

[denton-scratch]

How can the state of consciousness of a worm be evidence for anything, if you can't observe the worm's state of consciousness?

[GoblinSlayer]

You can infer worm's state of consciousness by observing its behavior, like for humans.

[denton-scratch]

By observing it's behaviour you can infer that in some sense it experiences the world. Experiencing events isn't the same as being conscious. If I strike a cricket ball, it experiences the blow; but it isn't conscious.

[GoblinSlayer]

It's how we establish existence of consciousness in humans and other animals. What you said doesn't differentiate between worms and humans.

[3g4o53g4o5]

First prove that you have consciousness, then we can talk.

[feet]

How is it neasured

[3g4o53g4o5]

No need because some one just said that consciousness is not a thing that can be measured, HA HA.

[michaelmrose]

Other than in your body where do you suppose you exist?

[3g4o53g4o5]

So you are talking about magic.

[slowmovintarget]

We do know how to shut consciousness off or suppress it. That's what anesthesia drugs do. Autonomic functions are not affected. Self-awareness and motivated action shut down.

[denton-scratch]

Anaesthesia is fantastic nowadays. But it remains the fact that even very good anaesthetists don't really know how it works.

"Motivated action" shuts down because they paralyse you, using curare (or something more modern, I guess). They don't want you twitching around while they're wielding the scalpel.

Whether Self-awareness shuts down is very hard to say, without being that self. And it does seem clear that people can't lay down memories when they're anaesthetised. So I don't have any way of knowing whether I was awake when they operated on me.