[Barrin92]

>I don't use Apple at all and don't feel I missing out. Apple doesn't have any network effect.

there were quite a few stories about kids being ostracized from groups because they started to bully each other over lack of messaging features. Certainly not the worst thing imaginable but Apple's apps do have network effects.

https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/10/22876067/google-apple-ios...

[Beltalowda]

I was bullied at school for not having Nike shoes; I remember one kid literally telling me "I can't be friends with you until you have Nikes".

I love kids; I used to work with kids and I kinda miss it, but man kids can be petty assholes.

[bombcar]

Sadly the solution isn't banning Nikes or whatever the current "they're being petty about it" thing is - they'll just find something else to latch onto.

[Beltalowda]

That was my point indeed. Although thinking about it again, in some countries (not mine) they got school uniforms for this reason. I don't know if it helps (as in, there will still be bullying no doubt, but is there less bullying without than with school uniforms?)

[bombcar]

I suspect if there are variations on "amount of bullying" it comes down to culture rather than "school uniforms" - at least one Japanese manga is all about bullying in a school uniformed school, so it must happen enough to be a bit of a trope.

It may happen less in places where the private schools can be school uniform or not, but there I suspect it has more to do with expelling the bullies than anything to do with the uniform itself, since it won't usually cover other status symbols that can be obtained (shoes, hair decorations, etc).

That's not to discount that the uniform may be useful for various reasons.

[usrn]

The solution is for mature adults to not behave like children because they understand being petty about brands creates serious problems both for themselves and everyone around them.

Children doing it is just part of the series of learning experiences that comprises maturation.

[Dracophoenix]

With regards to messaging, Apple's "network effect" is an oblong Parrish Blue text field. That says more about how petty children and even women on dating sites are and less about Apple "monopolizing" anything.

[Karunamon]

It’s not quite that petty.

It’s not that the background of the message is the wrong color, it’s that having an SMS user added to an iMessage chat degrades the functionality away from what iMessage supports down to what SMS supports.

[kop316]

From what I understand, one can't even change the title of the chat if it is SMS/MMS versus iMessage. That is a client side issue that Apple chooses not to allow, so I would argue, yes it is that petty.

I know it is a client side issue because in Chatty, I quite literally wrote the functionality to change titles of group chats.

[Dracophoenix]

Degrading to the lowest common denominator is what an interoperable standard is supposed to accomplish. The alternative is for iMessage to entirely decline SMS usage in group chats.

[Karunamon]

Technically that's accurate, but that does nothing for the social stigma of being that one guy who makes the chat suck for everyone else just by being present

[kop316]

> social stigma of being that one guy who makes the chat suck for everyone else just by being present

I have been trying to parse this. You do understand that for some people (like me), I explicitly DO NOT want an iPhone, right? It isn't I cannot afford it, I do not want it. The reason the chat "sucks for everyone else" is because Apple doesn't open up the protocol. Don't blame me for not wanting an iPhone.

[bombcar]

Even so if you're not on "iPhone" you get a bunch of "Bob laughed at TEXT" kind of things, which can be annoying.

I wonder how much Apple would make (and how much they'd lose) if they had a paid iMessage app for iCloud subscribers.

[greiskul]

Back when Microsoft used to adopt interoperable standards and make modifications to it to kill the standard, people here rightfully called that behaviour evil. Apple get's a pass for doing the same for SMS.

[Dracophoenix]

There's nothing inherently evil to EEE. Plenty of software and standards have benefited from it (e.g. Linux, Ethernet, USB, PCIe, Thunderbolt, Bluetooth). The question as whether EEE is "bad" is a matter of motive. Edit: Is it being done solely because there's money to be made in locking down the tech to certain platforms or because there's a superior or more convenient solution?

iMessage has been on phones for 11 years and so far Apple hasn't gone out of its way to pull the plug on SMS. Apple doesn't seem to have an active desire to extinguish it either. Other companies have put a more serious effort in that regard: Google has RCS, Signal has its own unfederated protocol, and various companies have their own messaging platforms (e.g. Telegram, Discord, WhatsApp).

[indymike]

So having an inferior participant degrades everyone?

[3qz]

It’s not just kids. Adult women don’t want boyfriends with Androids. Having green texts is unacceptable in such a competitive dating market.

[usrn]

My girlfriend is an Apple nut (she even asked for airpods for her birthday, now that I've listened to her use them for a two way conversation I can safely say they're garbage) and she tolerates me not only not having an iPhone but even using cheogram for all my MMS. We just use other protocols for chatting more than the protocols "messages" supports.

She even gave me one of her old iPhones to try to convert me but I wasn't impressed and eventually she dropped it. Would iMessage help if you're single? Maybe the same amount having some fancy shoes would but IMO it's really a surface level thing.

[colinmhayes]

Texting androids from an iPhone is a legitimately bad experience. No clue why iPhone users don't just get whats app, but if they're not willing to it's not surprising that they're uninterested in having text conversations with androids.

[smoldesu]

It's a deliberate choice on Apple's behalf, too. iMessage could adopt RCS anytime without losing features and actually becoming more secure. Apple deliberately leaves iMessage as a terrible SMS fallback device to increase social pressure on competitors.

[colinmhayes]

Obviously it's a deliberate choice, iMessage is somehow one of apple's strongest moats. Strange to me that users accept that though when their are so many great, free alternatives.

[heartbeats]

Competitive ... dating ... market? Have you considered hanging out with more, uh, human people?

I'm not exactly a playboy, but I've really never had this problem at all in my life. For what it's worth, approximately half of the women I speak to (in my subjective experience, eminently normal people) use Android phones.

[howinteresting]

*straight dating market

This is not at all a thing among the queer people I know. Most of my partners have Androids (one has an iPhone) and we all use Signal or Discord.

[3qz]

The gay men I date also bullied me when I still had an Android. If your social circle uses discord then they’re probably not concerned with being normal.

[smoldesu]

Really? I don't think I've ever dated a man who cares more about the phone I use than the job I have or the clothes I'm wearing. I think if anyone pestered me about using a Thinkpad or an Android device, I'd walk out of the venue and foot them the bill.

[howinteresting]

Yes, gay male dating culture is also quite bad with its focus on superficialities and appearing normal, as you put it. Talking mostly about lesbian and non-binary/trans culture here.