[mdp2021]

> Thank god we have normal cars

A disconnected car is a requirement by any parameter of sanity given considerations of security including privacy, within a basic right of rejection of absurdity: but for how long will the "privilege" of avoiding lunacy will be granted?

In Europe already one has to have law-mandated (in terms of shipment) hardware modules removed (the "e-call"). For how long non-connected cars will be available on the market? It is even possible that some rogue legislating body will decide that some connected feature should be mandated...

[the_biot]

The tragedy is that while it's no doubt possible to remove (or disable) all that tracking junk you don't want from your car, we're still carrying around phones that more often than not are full of tracking crap. And they're even extra useful in cars, since the car's navigation and entertainment systems tend to be crap compared to what phones have.

[mdp2021]

You can hack and customize a "phone" minicomputer, and I believe you can still find pure cellular telephones with basic OS in case you prefer to keep telephony and personal assistant separate; I am not informed that you can do the same with cars, and I very surely do not want an internet connected door, fridge, vehicle, wife to begin with.

The more reliable it has to be, the least possibly connected you want it.

I am not sure it is so possible to remove or disable the «junk you don't want from your car». Already for the mentioned 'e-call', that law mandated that it has to be installed and cannot be removed by the user - only by the manufacturer. And you will very probably have to struggle to get that done ("We cannot" // "Yes you must" etc). I suppose those vehicles will have a high degree of integration - you cannot just remove pieces.

[dzhiurgis]

If you do any sort of that you are instantly marking yourself as suspect

[mdp2021]

First of all: why should there be any doubt that one is strictly, radically unavailable for lunacies, abuse and undignified conditions. This should be very public, because the opposite is having the abuse proliferate.

Secondly: you may have given one State authority over some conditional monitoring, but we have not allowed any such power to any private party.

[fragmede]

You're too late. You can't get a non-connected car since about 2016.

[Nextgrid]

How do these cars handle network outages? It’s not too hard to cause a permanent network outage by removing/damaging the wireless interface.

[the_biot]

In every country the world over? Do you have a source for that?

[fragmede]

I don't follow the low end car market outside the US. It's entirely possible that developing countries still have "dumb" cars available, but due to their lack of adherence to US federal safety standards, importing one night as well be impossible for a normal consumer (aka anyone short of Jay Leno).

As far as a cite, here an article that claims 2006 was the tipping point, so even earlier than I remember.

[TedDoesntTalk]

I have a 2017 Hyundai Santa Fe. It has a cellular radio built-in to “phone home”. It is not a high-end car.

[mdp2021]

Well, than having a post-2016 car is ruled out then (I am not completely sure about this piece of info though: I will check, there may be exceptions, e.g. vans).

The issue will be about being able to use pre-2016 cars until civilization re-emerges.

[rad_gruchalski]

They will price those cars out by putting very high taxes on gasoline. If synthetics ever catch up, maybe that's the only way to go forward. Right now, synthetics are like €8/€9 per liter (*) to manufacture, not sure if it's possible to buy them.

(*) According to overheard info from Toyota presenting the technology at the N24 race.

[anshumankmr]

It isn't necessarily the case everywhere.