[psaux]

There is a lot to digest in this piece. Work environments are very dynamic and context and time-in-point is very important. I did not see this behavior, but I was not part of that group at Apple.

I worked with Jony after we were acquired. The original Siri linen background was his idea, the bubbles had to be perfect, the padding, the text size, the lists goes on. I inferred this as design obsession and did not find it offending, he was right 95% of the time.

When I left Apple, I emailed with Jony on a device I had designed and pitched internally in 2011 but was shelved. His response has stayed with me to this day, “not all ideas make the cut, even the best ones”.

He could have cut me down or ignored me, but he responded with honesty.

I think that void he left when he moved on was too big to be filled. Steve and Jony were always together, pretty much every day we would see them at lunch.

[the_af]

> “not all ideas make the cut, even the best ones”

I'm not sure I understand. If the best ideas don't make the cut, which ones do? Or was Jony acknowledging a flaw in Apple's process?

[ksec]

>“People think focus means saying yes to the thing you've got to focus on. But that's not what it means at all. It means saying no to the hundred other good ideas that there are. You have to pick carefully.

-Steve Jobs.

[the_af]

But that's "good" ideas. I wouldn't object to that. Instead, Jony said the best ideas. By definition, this means you're necessarily choosing a worse idea, because there's nothing better than the best idea. Seems like a bad process to me!

[culpable_pickle]

Quantifying best is very difficult. Is it the best technically but market conditions makes it less appealing? Or is it the best fit for the market but it’s a nightmare to build and so they can’t pump enough of them out to be reasonable.

The products that launch end up being good enough in all areas but rarely/never the best in all areas.

It’s the sign of a healthy business IMHO

[the_af]

If quantifying "best" is so difficult, then maybe Ive should have worded his words of consolation better, maybe? Otherwise it's just an empty platitude.

[nomel]

Someone like Ive, and anyone within his professional circle, would necessarily be intimately familiar with the concept of “beauty is in the eye of the beholder”, just as best is. Any one designers design is the best for that designer. Best, by anyones definition, doesn’t always make the cut.

[throw0101a]

There is Product Category A, Product Category B, and Product Category C. In each of those categories there is a "best" product.

But a company may not have the bandwidth to release in all three categories. So it may choose to focus on Product Category B, and the best implementation for B, and leave A and C (for now). Even though there are "best" implementations/ideas available for A and C.

Sometimes it is not possible for a company to walk and chew gum at the same time.

[synu]

I read it as “even (some of) the best ones” based on the “not all ideas” start.

[weird-eye-issue]

Could also be speaking with hindsight

[SV_BubbleTime]

Carful to remember the “some of”… but the best ideas might be too risky, not as practical, timed poorly, too controversial, etc.

[the_af]

Then they are not the best...

[simonh]

They are discussing design ideas. There might be many, many reasons why a product with an absolutely killer design could get cancelled anyway.

[the_af]

This means a better design idea won. So the idea that got cut wasn't the best!

[mouzogu]

Yeah like having a standard USB port on a laptop in 2020. At least they fixed it now.

[jefftk]

You mean a USB A port? They brought back MagSafe, HDMI, and the SD card slot, but for USB it's still only USB C.

[relaxing]

Wow, I somehow also had the misconception that USB A was back. I wonder how this shared delusion spread.

[kergonath]

Not all the best ones do, it is quite straightforward. Some bad ones also do occasionally make the cut, but it tells more about the nature of ideas than Apple’s process at this point.

[the_af]

If that was Ive's meaning, that humans sometimes choose a worse idea than the best one, then it's both a truism and an empty platitude...

[bradknowles]

In Re: Betamax vs. VHS, what does "best" mean?

[the_af]

Excellent point. I don't know, maybe there was no clear-cut "best" in that case. Refreshing my memory about that formats war by reading Wikipedia, it wasn't obvious Betamax was "better" (it didn't check many of the boxes consumers wanted, like cheaper, longer running time, faster; instead, it checked boxes video professionals wanted, so it can be argued Beta was not "the best" for consumers!).

That said, in this case Ive seems to be arguing even in cases where the "best" can be identified and has a known meaning, it won't make the cut. By definition of "best", this means something "worse" will be chosen instead. Seems like a flawed process to me!

PS: if you ask me, I think Ive wasn't careful with his words, and instead he meant "even extremely good products sometimes don't make the cut, because they are competing with something even better here at Apple". But he said "best", an unfortunate word which made his statement... wrong. Someone so careful about design should also be careful about words, because words are also design.

[sumedh]

> If the best ideas don't make the cut, which ones do?

The best idea might be too expensive for the market so you go with the next best one?

[the_af]

If it was too expensive, then it wasn't the best.

Whichever way you put it, it's either a flawed process or a weird turn of phrase by Ive.

[sumedh]

No its not a flawed process nor a weird phrase.

Have you ever heard of "Good/Cheap/Fast — pick two"?

[the_af]

Yes I have, where is "best" in that triplet?

An unqualified "best" means it's the best. It was an unfortunate turn of phrase by Ive, a person known to make mistakes, as pointed out several times here on HN.

[sumedh]

> An unqualified "best" means it's the best.

No not really, real life does not work that, you can be best in some aspect while not the best in other aspects but for some reason you dont seem to understand nuance, its probably your hatred for Ive that seems to be clouding your judgement.

[snambi]

It could mean there are more than one.

[davidhariri]

Thanks for sharing this!