[robhunter]

By that definition, anyone experiencing chronic illness symptoms "following" (said another way, "after") a Covid infection has "Long Covid" - even if Covid had nothing to do with those chronic illness symptoms developing or continuing.

I think we need a better definition.

[SpicyLemonZest]

I personally share your skepticism of self-reported diagnoses for such a vaguely defined condition. But it seems to me that a key part of developing a better definition would be to perform investigations like those in the source article, studying people with self-reported Long Covid to identify similarities between people who report it and/or differences with those who don't. How else could you research something like this?

[kennywinker]

I think at this point diagnosing long covid necessarily involves trusting patients. If you had no chronic illness symptoms you were aware of, and then get covid, and then have chronic illness symptoms - that's long covid. Until we understand what it is better, there's not going to be any way to objectively test for it, or define it more clearly.

[IMTDb]

After two years of confinement I have exhibited several of the symptoms associated with long covid.

I have done an asymptomatic COVID, so by all definition, I do suffer of long COVID.

Of course it could also be due to the fact that I am just generally getting older, being more tired and having a bit more headaches. Also, like many people I am doing a bit less sports than I used to, and my alcohol consumption has increased. The economy has gone to shit and my stress level have increased. It's probably unrelated tho and I will assume that the cause of my aliments is COVID.

"Long COVID" was used to describe the leftover symptoms of people suffering from a very hard COVID infection, leaving their lung half destroyed. Even tho they left the ICU, they still weren't back to 100%, and that's perfectly understandable. It could easily be identified by looking at a scan of a patient lungs.

It's now used as a catch-all name for purely subjective and self reported symptoms, which are also caused by bad diet, lack of exercise, excessive stress levels. No amount of scan/x-ray/... can be used to diagnose it, which is extremely convenient.

I do believe that "long COVID" is real. I just don't believe that self-diagnosis is the right way to measure it.

[kennywinker]

So how do you measure it then?

Because if you're saying "self diagnosis is the wrong way", but there is no other way yet, you're effectively saying you don't believe anyone who has it has it. And that isn't helpful.

[IMTDb]

As per my message: we have the CT scan/Xray to the chest showing clear signs of reduced lungs capacity following a COVID infection. Let's call this "doctor diagnosed long covid".

We also have the other self reported symptom. Because it's crazy to give it the same name, let's give it another one. We might call it the "I am feeling less well than 2 years ago" disease. It's a very common one.

Now the "I am feeling less well than 2 years ago" disease might have many origin. COVID being one of them. But considering that it has been rampant for years before COVID appeared, it's unlikely that it is the main origin of it.

According to me, it's not up to patient to diagnose it, just like we don't let patient self-diagnose brain cancer after letting them read 5 health article on Google otherwise everyone would have it - you know that joke, since why shouldn't it apply to COVID as well ? And since "long COVID" is discussed everywhere online and in the media, so it's natural people will associate with that, that does not make it true.

[jrnichols]

"long covid" is also going to be a goldmine for research funding for years to come, so it's not surprising that the term remains so vague.

[AndrewUnmuted]

> If you had no chronic illness symptoms you were aware of, and then get covid, and then have chronic illness symptoms - that's long covid.

Why even have a study if you refuse to be more scientific than this?

[robonerd]

> If you had no chronic illness symptoms you were aware of, and then get covid, and then have chronic illness symptoms - that's long covid.

Or a coincidence.. Not an unlikely one either, given the broad and vague set of symptoms.

[kennywinker]

Sure, but until we know what it is and how to measure if you have it - there is no difference between a coincidence and it. Would you rather we tell everybody who says they have it they don't, or accept everybody's self-assessment? Because until we have a way to diagnose it using an objective measure, those are the options.

[adrianN]

Perhaps we'll get one after we understand it better. Medicine rarely works from first principles.

[cjbgkagh]

It's likely that long covid and many chronic illnesses share a similar pathology. The symptoms are surprisingly clustered.