[wolverine876]

Yes, market prices on water and beef (incorporating what are now climate externalities) would seem to solve these problems. Why isn't that being considered? Remember when conservatives, neo-liberals, and libertarians supported the market as a solution for everything?

Of course, we would need a reasonable amount of water available to consumers at below-market rates.

[ajmurmann]

To me charging market price for water seemed obvious and easy till the comments here pointed out what should be obvious: the farmers Steve getting their water from the faucet but from their own wells, creeks etc. So that solution is pretty hard to do on practice.

Other than disgruntled voters, I don't see an obstacle for proper beef prices. In fact I wish we could price in carbon emissions, as I wish that pretty much for every price. I personally hope we'll soon see the day where you have to pay extra at McDonald's to get a beef patty instead of cyber meat.

[sacrosancty]

I think as manufacturing and agriculture have become less labor intensive, a bigger proportion of the cost of things has been energy. So in a way, carbon emissions sort of are being priced into things naturally, and I'd guess the trend is increasing. In some extreme technological utopia, energy would be the only cost of food and products, meaning it's all carbon.

[wolverine876]

> I think as manufacturing and agriculture have become less labor intensive, a bigger proportion of the cost of things has been energy. So in a way, carbon emissions sort of are being priced into things naturally

But our carbon emissions are not priced into the cost of energy. That's the primary cause of the climate crisis!

[wolverine876]

> To me charging market price for water seemed obvious and easy till the comments here pointed out what should be obvious: the farmers Steve getting their water from the faucet but from their own wells, creeks etc. So that solution is pretty hard to do on practice.

It doesn't seem that hard to measure it. The large scale would justify the cost.

[jandrewrogers]

Some US beef is already produced with private water traded on the free market, at least in the western US. This is already priced into the cost of that beef. The price of water fluctuates every year but as a percentage of cost for beef, it isn't that much.

[wolverine876]

Why do those farmers (or ranchers) use private water? Is it just the obvious - not enough public or on-premises water?

[jandrewrogers]

In places where water is scarce, like the US mountain west, all water is owned by someone. Drilling a well or having surface water does not entitle you to the water ipso facto, the water right has to be legally acquired from either a private owner or the State.

Prime grazing lands do not always come with water rights. Lease or purchase of that land to raise cattle requires acquiring sufficient water rights elsewhere. Since the State often has no additional water grants to allocate for that aquifer or water system, you then have to lease those water rights on the private market from an existing owner. While you could purchase titled water rights, they are rarely for sale since there is a ready market for renting them.