[adastra22]

As someone with ADHD, who has a kid with ADHD, this dismissive attitude is really unwelcome. Inattentiveness is a real symptom with drastic life-altering effects for which medication is a godsend. Studies have shown that exposure to screen time does not result in ADHD.

To be told "you're just a bad parent who lets their kid watch an iPad too much" is infuriating. (I'm trying to keep things civil per the site rules, but my honest reaction begins with 'F' and ends with 'U', guy.)

[lettergram]

Sounds like you’re not up to date on research, there’s a few citations in later comments.

Anyway, I don’t think the poster was saying it doesn’t exist. They appear to be saying there are correlations and often a diagnosis at a young age is a reflection more on a willingness to accept a hyper child vs not. That is to say, a child can have ADHD, but that doesn’t mean you have to medicate them. Medicating them (again at a young age) for ADHD, indicates a willingness and potentially eagerness to medicate, as opposed to attempting to correct issues. Ie just give the drugs, don’t try to figure out why they’re depressed.

[adastra22]

He pointed to a paper which I haven't had time to read yet. At risk of sounding like a general dismissal I'll say three outcomes are possible:

1) The study is right and every doctor and medical institution I've talked to is wrong.

2) The study's results are being generalized too far or misinterpreted. E.g. I've been told (and it's true in my experience) ADHD people tend to be attracted to screens for the dopamine hit and characteristically lack self-control, rather than the screens causing ADHD.

3) The study is cherry-picked and wrong. Either it is an abnormal result that doesn't replicate, or the study was badly constructed.

Given the fact that my doctors gave me multiple studies to look at which showed the exact opposite conclusion, my prior leads me to believe (2) or (3) over the first possibility. I'll skim the study he posted later though when I have time.

My anicdata doesn't constitute medical science, so it's entirely possible that this study is right and I am wrong, and I'm big enough to admit that. I wouldn't bet on that outcome though, in this case.

EDIT: Also one point you may or may not be aware of is that non-medicative interventions for ADHD are at best a coping mechanism and never satisfactorily address the underlying issues. In the words of my doc: if you are diagnosed with ADHD and you can solve your problems completely with therapy and just going outside or whatever, you didn't have ADHD in the first place and the diagnosis was wrong. Actual ADHD is when your brain is wired up a different way, and general lifestyle interventions can't address the problems that causes.

ADHD people have spent their entire lives feeling frustrated and powerless as the well-meaning people around them tell to simply "stop being so distracted!". Believe me, if we could turn it off we would. It's not so simple. The poster above is making essentially the same critique: that it's not the kid's neural chemistry or wiring that is causing them issues; it's the parent's fault. Stop being a bad parent!

That's worse than unhelpful.

[fatbird]

indicates a willingness and potentially eagerness to medicate, as opposed to attempting to correct issues. Ie just give the drugs, don’t try to figure out why they’re depressed.

This is speculating on the motivations of a wide class of people without data, and is complete nonsense.

[ericd]

Maybe don't take it personally, I think they're saying that much of society is doing it wrong.

EDIT: But yes, they’re also saying that many parents are doing it wrong, and they’re assigning much of the blame to parenting. My point was that when a huge percentage of parents are “doing it wrong”, maybe there’s some wider systemic thing at play. Like economic forces that make people work harder than they should if they have kids, dissolution of support networks that would’ve normally cared for the kids in addition to the parents, etc. I’m not saying that this is a cause of ADHD, because I know little about it, but if you take their opinion as correct, then much of the blame could be laid at the societal structures we’ve created rather than the individual.

[Djvacto]

Even if I wasn't someone with ADHD, the comment in question is dismissive of what ADHD actually is, as well as the very-valid treatment of getting medication.

Like I said in my comment, they pointed out some real problems, but made sweeping generalizations, mostly negative, about the people in question.

ADHD is not well understood by a lot of people, and someone with or without ADHD who is well-versed in the topic pointing out that their comment is not helpful to discussion about how to treat the disorder, shouldn't be dismissed as them "Taking it personally".

[ericd]

They said it was infuriating and they were very tempted to just say “fuck you”, they’re very clearly taking it personally, it’s not meant as a dismissal. I’m just trying to help them not feel personally attacked, but clearly I did that poorly. Sorry about that.

[adastra22]

As the person in question, I understood your intent and I didn't downvote you. But it's also hard to see how (paraphrased:) "Parents of so-called ADHD kids are bad parents and their kids have a made-up disease" is not meant as a personal attack: "You are a bad parent and should feel bad."

[MereInterest]

No, there's some incredibly broad brush strokes in the parent comment.

* "Every child I know diagnosed with ADHD had parents who didn't want to deal with them."

* "look at the people you know on medication (or ask), look at the troubled children, etc. I guarantee you'll see the same trend"

* "likely have parents who just don't want / know how to deal with issues"

There's only a single phrase "not always the case, but it's a trend" that frames it as a societal issue on average, but that doesn't counter the incredibly general conclusions made by the poster.

[lghh]

I can't believe the responder had the gall to take personal attacks personally. Have they tried going outside more? If they didn't sit on their butt all day they might not be inclined to take my directed insults personally.

[adastra22]

I know these sorts of comments are more welcome on Reddit than HN, but I chuckled and thanks for that.

[lghh]

I realize that posting that comment wasn't too helpful on my part, but people being dismissive of ADHD is probably the quickest way to get a rise out of me.

Sorry for being snarky. Not sorry for calling out destructive, unscientific bullshit.

[citilife]

To be clear, I'm actually blaming therapists and "mental health experts".

Parents are clearly doing their best and looking for support. The "experts" are paid (in many cases) through recurring attendance and kick-backs from pharma... why would we assume they'd want to resolve the issue any other way? Even the research is often funded by pharma... Note the NIH even receives revenue (and individual scientists) from creating patents associated with drugs.

Here's something I posted in another comment, but ADHD / Depression is a "disease" is a bucket of symptoms that impair an organisms normal function.

1. I would argue that what you describe isn't impairing normal function. It's that we are attempting to make children do abnormal things (sit in a room all day and be lectured at. At the end you have an exam). Society is failing to raise children properly and expecting things that are abnormal for the human animal.

2. A disease is basically diagnosed from a bucket of symptoms. Those symptoms will have different causes. Without taking a measured approach at identifying the causes, you are likely going to see a plethora of factors. These can and do include things like hyperactivity from siting and watching TV (now they have energy and want to move). Things of that nature.

Now to compound the issue, look at how all the parents are responding. There is no way they'd consider alternatives.

One way I try to explain it to people: "We give people insulin because they have diabetes. Diabetes is the disease, but you can cure it through diet and exercise for Type 2 (it's environmental), Type 1 you cannot (it's genetic). Insulin treats the disease, but doesn't cure it".

Why are we giving all the kids medication instead of trying to have them diet and exercise (or what ever equivalent)?

Parents in this thread are taking it very personally, but in reality I'm trying to discuss ways to treat the underlying issue(s). And yes, I am saying that there are societal, family, etc expectations and management that can be employed to remove symptoms of the disease (which in effect would "cure" the disease).

[Djvacto]

Your diabetes analogy fails, because ADHD does not have an environmentally-caused Type 2.

ADHD is hereditary, genetic, and has to do with how the brain tends to be wired in that individual. ADHD can be helped through environment and habit changes, and impacts can be reduced, but you cannot cure it.

It seems that you think ADHD is not a real disease, given your quotes around the words "disease", "cure", etc. If some people are mis-diagnosed, it doesn't invalidate all the others.

[FollowingTheDao]

ADHD is caused by a mix off environment and genetics. That environment could include several inputs, like diet, air pollution, etc.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31810593/

And ADHD is not a disease, it is a disorder. There is no biological markers yet for a diagnosis either.

[car]

The experts you are blaming are psychiatrist, so they would have on average ten years of university study. Please explain what your credentials are so we can weigh our opinions regarding your statements.