[0daystock]

Chickens are beautiful creatures worthy of at the least the respect we give to household pets. The unimaginable horror we put billions of them through on an ongoing basis, while dissonantly admiring their charm and brilliance, is a sobering realization.

[Perenti]

I grew up on an organic, free-range poultry farm in the 70s. The current definition of "free range" supports up to 100 full grown birds per m^2. The treatment of battery hens and factory farmed poultry is an obscenity, in my opinion.

[LesZedCB]

indeed, the line between "pet" and "food" is disturbing in both where it's drawn, and it's fundamental relativism.

[harry8]

I don't think OP is really talking about the line between pet and food. There's something else going on here.

Think more about cows. Nice creatures. Live in the fields under the sun and that isn't horrific. We eat them. Maybe you had a pet cow? Ok that's fine. There's your pet/food line issue. Most omnivorous humans believe it is possible to treat them with respect in their lives and eat them. Others disagree, of course they do. That's also fine.

As a civilization, we don't treat chickens anything like that. We have factory farms that are utterly horrific, stomach-turning and detrimental to global health and we pretend we kind of pretend don't know that and don't talk about it much.

You don't have to be a vegetarian or keep chickens as pets or even particularly like chickens much (and I don't) to object to those horrors. Factory farms days are numbered. They are beyond what the consumers of factory farms can stomach. They are beyond what we should tolerate in their abuse of the commons of having effective antibiotics. They are nothing like what we think of as farms which are usually some approximation of the family farm. It is perfectly reasonable and defensible to be very proudly meat-eating and want effective reform here. In my experience most do lean that way when they find out what goes on in a shed full of caged chickens.

[igetspam]

Yeah... it's hard to decide what's worse, the crammed cages of filth or tossing the rooster chicks into a chipper. Both are terrible fates. We're pretty awful creatures sometimes.

[m463]

I noticed whole foods seems to have has labeling wrt how the chickens are raised. That said, aside from eggs the chickens are eaten in the end. (and I wonder about eggs, I've heard some are fertilized)

[0daystock]

You should research what happens to "useless" male chicks born in the industry, as they don't produce eggs. Actually watch some videos of innocent animals being ground alive, screaming, because their existence doesn't make financial sense to humans. Wonder what label Whole Foods can assign to that.

[sph]

I disagree. Chicken have been seen as food for the majority of our existence on this planet, not pets. That now we see them as pet as well talks about the complexity and capacity for contradiction and paradoxes of our culture and our minds. I accept that biologically I thrive on chicken meat yet I am intellectually capable of thinking chicken are very lovely animals. Humans are walking contradictions.

As much as many people try, there is often no simple black and white answer to humanity's most complex issues.

But often the black and white answer is the one that's printed on the slogan.

[gameshot911]

>I accept that biologically I thrive on chicken meat yet I am intellectually capable of thinking chicken are very lovely animals.

But today you have the capacity to biologically thrive equally as well without needing to eat chick en meat, so "lovely beings" are being slaughtered for no more than a few moments of sensory pleasure. A terrible price for such a lowly payoff.

[sph]

No, I do not thrive on a meatless diet. I do not want to go into the particulars of my digestion and body, but it certainly isn't the diet for me.

In general my opinion is meatless diets are possible, but not as healthy as omnivore ones. Thus the complexity of the matter, whose answer is not that simple. That said, I honestly do not think this is the place for such a debate.

[0daystock]

> In general my opinion is meatless diets are possible, but not as healthy as omnivore ones.

Indeed, that is an opinion. However, the science is clear that meatless diets are more sustainable and healthier for humans.

[sph]

The science is anything but clear. And science is never final, especially dietary science, rife with subpar studies and economic lobbying.

One thing is certain: there is more money on the meatless bandwagon than outside of it.

Please let's agree to disagree, as I said this is not the place for such an argument and these days it's become like discussing our favourite football teams. I don't care for it.

[jephson]

> Chicken have been seen as food for the majority of our existence on this planet

This may not be correct: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/06/chickens-wer...

[MiddleEndian]

Seeing that colorful jungle fowl reminds me of a conversation I had with my friend about pigeons and doves.

We consider doves to be an "elegant" bird, all white, used in religious imagery and magicians' tricks, and so on, while we consider pigeons to be a "dirty" bird, mostly known for scavenging food in cities, even though they're basically the same type of bird. People chase them around for fun.

But if someone had only ever seen white doves and suddenly saw a much more colorful version of the bird that we call pigeons, they'd probably consider it to be the more fanciful, impressive-looking bird.

[cbozeman]

There is no contradiction here.

Just because something is a lovely animal doesn't mean I won't put a round through it's heart and butcher it's corpse to sustain my life. Elk are beautiful animals, but I have no problem killing one and eating it. We are the greatest predator Nature has ever evolved and I can accept that. More's the pity others can't.

[0daystock]

> Just because something is a lovely animal doesn't mean I won't put a round through it's heart and butcher it's corpse to sustain my life.

Do you actually do this, or are you just virtue signaling? You never buy factory-farmed animal products from the store?

> Elk are beautiful animals, but I have no problem killing one and eating it

But it's not necessary for survival, so why would you?

> We are the greatest predator Nature has ever evolved and I can accept that. More's the pity others can't.

Interesting thought. I wonder how great of predator you are faced with a lion, or even that elk, but disarmed of technology.

[cbozeman]

> Do you actually do this, or are you just virtue signaling? You never buy factory-farmed animal products from the store?

I grew up in a town in Mississippi of about 2000 people. Everyone hunts. My grandfather's best friend was a butcher with his own shop. Everyone around us had cows because most of the people around us were farmers. I now live in Fort Worth, or as it's affectionately known to its residents - Cowtown. I don't have to buy meat from the grocer because there's ranchers all around me. I can - and do - get sides of beef regularly.

I go hunting in Alaska with friends about twice a year, depending on what's happening with work and our schedules. One elk has a tremendous amount of meat.

> But it's not necessary for survival, so why would you?

So you don't eat anything? How are you still alive? I'm pretty sure eating is necessary for survival.

> Interesting thought. I wonder how great of predator you are faced with a lion, or even that elk, but disarmed of technology.

This is kind of a stupid thought. In fact, I would hope your friends would tell you that you're beneath this level of incredibly poor reasoning. We are the greatest predator because of our mastery of technology.

[npteljes]

OP's point is different though. They're simply asking: "How about we don't treat our food animals horribly". And I agree, personally.

[tomcam]

Chickens are indeed charming and beautiful. I own chickens and love them beyond comprehension. They are pretty dumb, and they will attack and abuse weaker chickens mercilessly.