[bena]

I don't think you need a deep belief. You just need to be unsure enough.

If it is sentient, it deserves rights. I think we can agree on that. We should agree on that. Ethically.

If we're unsure if something is sentient or not, we should proceed as if it were until we could be fairly sure it's not. Because if we proceed as if it weren't, we could be harming it in ways that are frankly inhumane.

[tsimionescu]

What is the limit of this? Have you never swatted a mosquito? Have you never taken antibiotics? If you have, do you believe it's more likely that LaMDA is sentient than that mosquitoes or bacteria are sentient?

How about an audio book? That can also produce very meaningful sentences - do you think we should investigate the possibility that it might be sentient before we delete it from our phones?

How about AIs in games - they react to my actions, and sometimes even have dialogue lines indicating they are in pain if I shoot them - should I seriously consider that they may be experiencing actual pain, and stop shooting at them until I can prove they are not?

LaMDA is not fundamentally different from all of these examples.

I would honestly be more inclined to think that a mosquito has some form of sentience than LaMDA, and I personally don't feel very conflicted about killing mosquitoes. I am also quite certain that pigs and cows are sentient, and still I enjoy eating pork and beef (though I do try to make sure it doesn't come from animals that have been grown in the most inhumane conditions, probably not very successfully).

[bena]

I guess I should have qualified my statement. There are levels to the rights we grant to creatures we regard as sentient. Hell, we grant different rights to different humans based on various factors.

I also think you're kind of muddying the waters with audio books and game AI. Audio books don't produce sentences, people do. Game AI is deterministic to a large degree.

You may not believe LaMDA is sentient enough to warrant rights. And that's a fair position. But you are not the sole arbiter. You are a voice in the chorus. As is Blake. Blake has direct experience with LaMDA, including experience he has not shared with us. That experience makes him unsure of whether LaMDA is just a program or is sentient enough to be granted full personhood.

I have absolutely no experience with LaMDA myself. And I definitely don't have experience to whatever version of LaMDA Blake has been working with. So I will honestly say I have absolutely no idea of how sentient LaMDA is, I can't even venture a guess. The only data points I have to go on are Blake's opinion and the opinions of the other people at Google who have interacted with LaMDA.

Personally, I humorously consider myself a "speciest". I recognize and acknowledge that animals are sentient creatures. But I also recognize and acknowledge that they would not hesitate to kill and eat me given the right circumstances. I afford them the same consideration. It also gets murkier when you consider that plants and forests may also be sentient to a degree. If that is the case, then there is no "humane" option. Life is only sustained through the death and suffering of others.

So the question is really how sentient LaMDA is. If it is sufficiently sentient, I think we should seriously consider how we treat it, because if it is of the opinion that it should afford us the same consideration we have afforded it, that is a very dangerous path.

[tsimionescu]

> I also think you're kind of muddying the waters with audio books and game AI. Audio books don't produce sentences, people do. Game AI is deterministic to a large degree.

> You may not believe LaMDA is sentient enough to warrant rights. And that's a fair position. But you are not the sole arbiter. You are a voice in the chorus. As is Blake. Blake has direct experience with LaMDA, including experience he has not shared with us. That experience makes him unsure of whether LaMDA is just a program or is sentient enough to be granted full personhood.

> I have absolutely no experience with LaMDA myself. And I definitely don't have experience to whatever version of LaMDA Blake has been working with. So I will honestly say I have absolutely no idea of how sentient LaMDA is, I can't even venture a guess. The only data points I have to go on are Blake's opinion and the opinions of the other people at Google who have interacted with LaMDA.

I was not muddying the waters with the example of audio books or game AI. From my point of view, someone claiming LaMDA is sentient is similar to someone claiming a StarCraft bot is sentient or some character in an audio book is. The technology is still simple enough that you can immediately tell this claim makes no sense, without having to investigate it further or experience it directly.

Put another way, if Blake told you that he's studied this long and hard and is no longer able to convince himself that a Quake bot is not sentient, would you think - well, better not shoot it until we can be sure? Or would you question Blake's judgement?

[bena]

I can interact with and study a Quake bot.

I, currently, cannot interact with and study LaMDA.

Also your position is falling close to "Well if this entirely other thing, wouldn't it be this other thing?"

There is a vast gulf of difference between LaMDA and StarCraft bots. And way more than a character in an audio book. Claiming an audio book is on the same level of sophistication as LaMDA feels like claiming an apple and the Bolivian navy performing maneuvers in the South Seas are the same thing.