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by rcpt 1466 days ago
Low income seniors are covered by the California Tax Postponement Program. Most states have something similar. Prop 13 is wholly unnecessary.
4 comments

I'm not following. Postponing those taxes doesn't mean they don't need to get paid. I quickly googled it and saw "The deferment of property taxes is secured by a lien against the property which must eventually be repaid."

Which sounds like a recipe for... grandpa dies, grandma can't pay property taxes so defers it for 10 years. Grandma dies and whoever inherits the home needs to be pay a massive deferment (unaffordable?) or give up the home.

Right. Seems reasonable no?

Not sure where this bizarre idea came about that people whose houses dramatically increase in value should:1) be able to avoid paying taxes on that value and 2) pass the house down, in whole, to their heirs without paying increased taxes.

The idea doesn't sound that bizarre to me. I'm not an expert or anything but as people grow older their earning potential slows down too. What if the neighborhood grows in value even though the retired homeowner hasn't made any changes to their home?

It sounds reasonable to me that a retiree with a conservative investment portfolio that is barely over/under inflation should be able to live out their remaining life in that home.

Yes that's the idea? They get to live out the rest of their years, and then their heirs pay the deferred taxes, selling the house if needed.
This is a bad situation if you want long-term neighborhood and cultural cohesion, though, because it encourages turnover (particularly among less affluent groups).
I mean if people can defer taxes until they die you’re not increasing turnover at all.
Yes, that's the point of postponing the taxes. The retiree can live out their remaining life in the home, and the taxes are due when their heirs inherit it.
Yea I guess that makes sense. Although inheritance is a change of ownership and the new owner would see the home re-assessed, no?

The other issue I see is that the deferment program is limited to very low income seniors (< $35k year or something like that). That's pretty low for a lot of places in the Bay Area which means not being able to go on road trips and do whatever it is seniors do in their twilight years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_California_Proposition_13

"1986 Proposition 58

Proposition 58 allowed homeowners to transfer their principal residence to children without a property tax re-assessment, as well as the first $1 million (not indexed to inflation) in assessed value of other real property."

Of course if the homeowner has more than one child it could get messy

If someone buys my neighbor’s house for 2X what I paid for mine, why should I pay more in taxes ?
because property tax is based on the value of the property, and your property is worth more too?

a different way of phrasing the question: is it fair that your new neighbor pays twice as much as you to support city services, just because they bought their place more recently?

> is it fair that your new neighbor pays twice as much as you to support city services, just because they bought their place more recently?

My neighbor paying 2x what I paid has no effect on the cost of city services

Because your house is now more valuable and as a general rule progressive taxes are best where those with more money pay more tax.
My house going up or down in value doesn’t make me richer or poorer

I could see the point of your argument if I sell and make a profit - but before I do that my QOL within my house is not affected

Of course it means you’re richer.

Wealth = assets minus liabilities

Your house becoming more valuable doesn’t mean you have more money.
That's like saying "just because people buying TSLA shares at 2x what I paid for them doesn't mean I have more money."

Of course not, stock shares or real estate are not money. But they are wealth.

Try to repeal it, you'll find yourself drummed out of politics.

I think someone who spent enough money could repeal it, and it'd help.

New Jersey, a famously high residential property tax state, has the senior "tax freeze" statue in many towns.
Just did a little research out of curiosity and it looks like they've been trying to kill it.
Homeowners trying to kill property taxes is like a law of physics
Death Tax!

There isn’t a red state that doesn’t wish they had Prop 13.

All of the extremely wealthy people I know are in favor of maaaive death taxes, of pretty much all wealth. However, none of these people inherited their money, and came from humble backgrounds, so my anecdata may not represent many of the wealthy.
Not to accuse them of being dishonest, but it also costs them nothing to say that, loudly and often, in a political environment where they know it's not going to happen.
These are private and personal discussions, ranging over many areas of politics where we disagree and agree. I have no reason to doubt them. Even with a massive tax eliminating inheritance, their children will lead charmed lives. They are more afraid of a dysfunctional family than their children suffering from material wants.