[woolion]

Although it's always good news to have Linux on more device, in the case of Apple I find it a bit problematic. That means you encourage Apple getting a huge cut on device sale. Or further justify the high prices of second-hand device because now you can 'give them a second-life' (to counter Apple's in-house planned obsolescence program).

It's not just about freedom. Apple's walled-garden means you need in every company some "Apple guy" that owns an iPhone, iPad, etc to test Safari quirks. It really feels like an under-handed racket.

[tmikaeld]

There will be millions of no-longer-supported Apple units out there, it makes sense to give them a second life with Linux rather than throwing them in a landfill.

And linux on it would not run Apple apps, it would run Firefox or Chromium.

[woojoo666]

I think they are just saying if you buy an Apple device to install Linux on it, you are still supporting Apple (including their walled garden approach). Not to mention Apple is constantly fighting against these sorts of hacks so you'll always be playing mouse in their cat-and-mouse game

[tmikaeld]

I'm all for open hardware, but objectively, it's either landfill or Linux, I'd rather see it come to use than become useless.

[jraph]

I completely agree with this line of thinking. That would almost makes me against this kind of projects. However, thinking about the consequences completely flips the coin for me:

- without these projects, Apple will still continue doing whatever they are doing

- I don't expect many people to actually buy a new iThing because of these projects. Maybe they'd buy second hand iThings on which Linux is guaranteed to work. So Apple is not making new money with this

- Yes, they may save some devices from the landfill

- it might show Apple that yes, opening their devices a bit may actually increase their sales (but I would not count on it)

If I ever need a tablet and these projects work out without too many drawbacks, I'd actually probably consider getting a second hand iPad and install Linux on it. At this point I'd rather avoid both Android and iOS. I'd probably look into Pine64's (and other such manufacturers) devices first though.

I hope these projects will help save 2 old iPad 2 sleeping somewhere in my family. These otherwise perfectly capable devices are worthless now just because of one thing: the old version of Safari combined with the fact that Apple forbids browsers with alternative browser engines on these devices. That's so dumb.

And I'd probably prefer using existing devices than buying new ones if possible.

So, yes please, port Linux to the Apple devices!

[rtpg]

So loads of people have testified that using old Androids as long term computing devices just doesn't work cuz the machines can't deal with being on all the time.

I wonder if iPhones and the like are any different on this front. Would you be able to build up a little serve farm of these things?

[alistairSH]

That's kind of weird, since phones are generally on all the time when being actively used. I guess it depends on what active/sleep "modes" are available - ie can Linux on Apple run processes with the screen asleep or whatever. As long as it's plugged in, it should be workable, maybe.

But, in my mind, you wouldn't try to build a server farm out of 5+ year old iPads. Instead, you'd continue to use them as consumption devices. Read books, browse web, ie all the things most iPads are doing when new.

[rtpg]

I believe what people have said is that the components can’t handle continuous use (instead of basically idling on user input). Even when being in use for the most part these machines just are rendering some textures onto the screen and the cpu is not doing much

[zozbot234]

> I believe what people have said is that the components can’t handle continuous use

That could be worked around by using the existing Linux featureset to manage hardware utilization. Especially if CPU/GPU use turns out to be the main issue (as opposed to, e.g. powering the display and radio components).

[newswasboring]

Oh damn. That sort of explains why my phone gets super hot when I try to solve a project euler problems on it. I never thought about this.

[alistairSH]

That wouldn't surprise me. Could still be fun for tinkering and light consumption.

[usrn]

The Android userspace is absolutely god awful and makes those projects hard. This would be running straight GNU/Xorg/wayland.

[gruturo]

> (to counter Apple's in-house planned obsolescence program)

iPhones are famous for being supported A LOT longer than almost any other phone. There are manufacturers which abandon you after the 2nd year, and if you buy a model near the end of its sale period, that can mean as little as 13-14 months on a brand new phone.

Some iPhones have been, are, or will be supported for 6, 7, even 8 years - which is ridiculously good in comparison, and often the reasons for dropping a model are quite clear (only 1G of RAM, would swap/OOMkill like crazy, or lack of a 64-bit CPU).

You could debate some of these reasons, you could debate when none are provided, you could argue about why a certain model had so little RAM to begin with, and of course there have been poorly handled issues like batterygate or certain iOS versions being brutally slow on old models (though it's been years since it last happened).... but frankly, this is an odd choice of a hill to die on.

[drexlspivey]

I am still using my 2012 ipad with iOS 9 to watch youtube and Plex

[captn3m0]

Running iOS8 on my iPad 2 to read books and comics.

[jraph]

The iPad 2 is a perfect example.

It is good some people still find use for it. However, it is a device that would be perfectly capable of being used to surf the web… but Apple stopped releasing updates for Safari and forbids alternative browser engines for iOS. The web is essentially broken on it, and I'm not even talking about the security issues that it probably has as a consequence..

I'd say it is exactly the example of a device that is today unusable for many things its hardware could handle just fine for no good reason, and therefore obsolete for many people.

Obsolete because of its closed nature. This obsolescence was planned. Maybe not intentionally to make you buy a new one, but still bad and the consequences are the same. Many people probably replaced their iPad 2 with a new tablet for exactly this reason. Or bought a new tablet even if they still use their iPad 2 for the uses cases the iPad 2 is not capable of handling anymore. Apple should be legally forced to enable third parties to support this hardware.

Next time you consider buying closed hardware (not just Apple, and Android tablets are certainly problematic too), think about the iPad 2. Closed => Waste.

[captn3m0]

I won it as a prize, and considering how it's still being used a decade later - it's certainly not a waste yet.

I'm hoping to get Postmarket running on it, if this Linux port works out.

[jraph]

To be clear, I find it pleasant to read your comments about still finding use for such devices and I was not specifically writing to you personally. That was a you for the random reader of my comment. Actually, you specifically are not even in the target of my comment, since you still use your old device.

[mobilio]

I'm still using iPad 2 for ebooks too.

[sgjohnson]

> to counter Apple's in-house planned obsolescence program

Apple does not do planned obsolescence. iPhone 6S is going to be be supported for 8 years total. (It's not going to receive feature updates anymore, as iOS 16 won't support it, but it also means that iOS 15 gets another year of support)

[refracture]

I'm hoping for two years since that's what the iPhone 5s got with iOS 12 after 13 dropped support for it, but it may just be a matter of policy for them to target 8 years since it was the 8 year mark when the final update for 12 went out last September.

This topic has become an amusing barometer for people who don't actually know anything about Apple products but love to knock on them.. there's plenty Apple does to get upset over, but this is always the one topic ignorant people bring up.

When the battery went bad on my 6s which was already several years old Apple replaced it for free. That's above and beyond the $30 program they started after their misshap handling the CPU throttling to prevent power loss on worn batteries.

[fartcannon]

The updates that downgrade the battery life without having user replaceable batteries is planned obsolescence.

[neilalexander]

It's hardly like updates are being released deliberately to worsen battery life. The more features that get added, the more CPU cycles are used therefore battery power is consumed more quickly. This should be a surprise to no one, little less a technical audience like HN. Even the battery throttling saga a couple years ago was largely with good intentions (in that it's better to run the phone a bit slower than it is for it to power off at random due to voltage drops).

Apple can be accused of an awful lot but their support story for older devices is better than any other phone or tablet manufacturer out there bar none.

[fartcannon]

They were sued and lost for exactly this reason.

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/18/936268845/apple-agrees-to-pay...

[robin_reala]

The technical explanation was that CPU speed scaling spikes would exceed the old battery’s ability to supply power, causing the phone to reset. Apple’s decision was that a slower phone was a better user experience than a phone that randomly reset when you tried to do something that required a high CPU frequency.

The upshot of that is that, yes, your phone got slower as it aged due to a software update. The battery life certainly didn’t suffer (if anything it would have improved it slightly). But it’s a little bit more nuanced than “planned obselescence”.

[ben174]

And any way you look at it, it's clear that Apple wasn't just trying to cripple old phones in an attempt to sell the newer models. They were doing their best to prolong the life and/or maintain a decent experience for the phones that had become outdated.

[fartcannon]

No, it was pretty straight forward. Which is why they lost the suit.

[sgjohnson]

Batteries are consumable, and there's not a shred of evidence that Apple is purposefully downgrading battery life with updates.

[refracture]

The only thing I could imagine Apple doing with regards to seeing Linux running on their mobile hardware is further engineer ways to prevent it.

I'm personally hoping Apple A5 devices are able to run Linux too as my iPad 2 is 11 years old, has a great battery and is in good condition but hasn't seen a software update in years.

[ntoskrnl]

Let's say I have an iPhone 6 that stopped receiving updates. What do you suggest I do with it:

- landfill

- install Linux

- something else?

[robin_reala]

- The back camera is probably better than your current webcam

- It can make a good pet or baby monitor (several apps that do this have extremely long support schedules because they know people will reuse old phones)

- If you’re going to dispose of it, return it to Apple for recycling rather than landfill

[Klonoar]

Recycle it with Apple.

I don’t understand this desire to keep arbitrary old devices around. I only do it for as long as I need a device for testing (iOS dev).

They simply have no value past this.

[Synaesthesia]

Use as an iPod, it's got a headphone jack which is rather nifty, also still works fine as a basic phone, you can have the battery replaced quite cheaply.

[NeutronStar]

And what do I do with my new phone? Just leave it there while I use the older iPhone? No. Realistically you'll use the new phone. The old iPhone is still not going to be used. So what do we do with them now? We install Linux or we just trash it?

[turtlebits]

Sell it or repurpose it, just like anything that gets replaced (fridge, blender, car, etc..)?

Just because your old device doesn't support linux doesn't mean it's a brick. (Surely you were aware before you bought the device that it doesn't support linux).

[rvz]

> - something else?

Recycling it would benefit the planet more right?

[jacquesm]

It beats devices going into the landfill or being scrapped, this gives millions of machines a second lease on life. For people who for instance can't afford anything else.

[usrn]

What? These devices would be running Firefox not Safari.

[scarface74]

You need a lot more “Android guys” to keep Android usable on old phones when the manufacturer drops support in a year..