[kettleballroll]

Whoa, that's a lot of super weird assumptions you're making. Fwiw, neither myself nor any other parent i ever met even gets in the remote vicinity of the picture you're painting. It sounds to me like you just have shitty parent-friends in your bubble? But rest assured that there a legion of other parents out there who neither got kids because they're afraid to die alone nor want to force their own wishes and life goals onto them.

In my experience, kids can be exhausting at times, and take a lot of dedication and time that you could otherwise spend on selfish persuits, so having kids for selfish reasons sounds insanely misguided to me. It's rather that despite all those sacrifices, kids enrich your life, and they allow tremendous opportunity for self-growth and a host of experiences that are hard to replicate otherwise.

[enrichyourlife]

> It's rather that despite all those sacrifices, kids enrich your life, and they allow tremendous opportunity for self-growth and a host of experiences that are hard to replicate otherwise.

This is the reason why most people have kids. This doesn't entirely contradicts the parent post though: People are having kids for their self benefits.

[Goronmon]

That post said the main reasons that people have kids are "They don't want to "die alone". They want to show that they can afford it."

Which are entirely different reasons than the parent poster gave.

This whole meta discussion of whether it's done for "selfish" reasons is largely not valuable, as every decision one makes in their life can be framed as being entirely selfish.

[goodpoint]

> kids enrich your life, and they allow tremendous opportunity for self-growth and a host of experiences that are hard to replicate otherwise

As other people said, these are by-the-book examples of selfish justifications. (And no, I'm not saying that ALL parenting is selfish)

And this is without considering climate change. If you consider it, having kids is very selfish.

[pcthrowaway]

There's also an argument that it's unethical to intentionally bring someone into the world when there are so many problems and a fair chance that their life may involve a lot of suffering

[Goronmon]

Some arguments are worth making, some aren't.

There is also an argument that people choose not to have kids because they are too lazy and self-involved to care for another person.

[pcthrowaway]

That's not really the same kind of argument. Of course some people are too lazy and self-involved to care for other people. Lots of those people have kids and abandon them too.

Anyway, if someone does have the capacity to care for others, and wants the experience of raising children, adoption is an option as well, and doesn't require one to create more humans

[hugg]

I mean most people (like you) seem to justify having kids in a selfish way (self-growth, experiences).

As someone who doesn't want my own kids (but like kids and spend time with them), I feel no need to have my own

[Goronmon]

I mean most people (like you) seem to justify having kids in a selfish way (self-growth, experiences).

What is an example of a non-selfish reason someone would have kids?

[hugg]

Can't really think of any. But not saying being selfish is wrong either. There is a lot of things we do that are selfish.