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by steve8918 5348 days ago
I think this article is ridiculous.

"The biggest thing that unequivocally separates social gaming from gambling is that the players have no ability to tangibly recoup the money put into the game."

Oh you mean like the video games I used to play in arcades? Like Gauntlet, which was one of the first quarter suckers? How many days did I go without a lunch so that I could play Spyhunter, Elevator Action, or Gauntlet? But I had fun. That's the whole point of gaming, isn't it?

When you buy a video game like Doom, Call of Duty, etc, aren't those same elements present? The only difference is that there is a front-loaded payment as opposed to something like Farmville where there are micropayments, which, by the way, you don't even have to pay if you don't want to!!

The comparison to gambling is a complete stretch. Sure they may use similar tactics, but so what? There's no gambling element in the sense that there there is risk vs reward. That's like saying that in Plants Vs. Zombies, when I buy a "mystery plant" for my zen garden, it's some form of gambling. It's not!

With games like Farmville, you are paying to play, like old school arcades. To compare "social" gaming to gambling is just wrong. (Even the term "social" gaming to Farmville is misplaced, there's nothing social about it except the ability to visit other people's farms. Nothing about the game is enhanced via the social aspect.)

2 comments

I think you're missing the point here. I sank tons of money into arcade games just as you did, however neither one of us needed to add quarters during gameplay to get new items to use. You also can't compare purchasing a console game to the money that gets used in social games. Your points of comparison are apples and oranges. I can respect that you feel comparing social games to gambling is wrong, but it's purely subjective. Gambling and gaming are both forms of entertainment that cost money. If you set aside your bias and look at the facts of the game mechanics, you'll see that the comparison is actually spot on.
I disagree with you. What is the difference between buying a new type of crop vs. getting 3 more lives so that you can explore deeper down the dungeon? The only difference is that in Farmville it's a bit lazier because they enhance the speed of the items. You don't think that back in 1985 when we were playing Gauntlet that if you paid $0.50 to get an invincible player vs the regular $0.25, that it would be considered gambling? No way, it's enhancing the gaming experience. That's it. In both cases, you are enhancing the gaming experience by paying more money.

This is entirely different from a slot machine where "if I just do 10 more pulls, I might win $1MM! My luck is bound to turn sooner or later!" It's a completely different mentality. You put money in slot machines because you consider it an investment in hopes that you will make back more money than you put in. If you removed the ability for people to win money, the casinos would probably be empty, despite how many blips and bloops you put into the game.

The difference is that one type of game has mechanics and the other doesn't. Social games are like gambling in that they both strictly put you in a Skinner's box, and there is no game-loop. Traditional video games have strong game-loops and this is a different kind of enjoyment.

There is overlap, especially in RPG's, but the big difference is that you can enjoy traditional games without the rewards.

I disagree. Even the article that you linked to below specifically mentions Farmville's game loop! Even though you don't find the game particularly interesting (neither do I), it doesn't mean that it isn't fun for a certain section of the population. Farmville and games like this are a different type of game so you can't compare them. But it doesn't mean that it's gambling!

If you read the following presentation from the Farmville developer, the reason why Farmville was so popular was because it was designed to be simple with a very easy reward system. It was made for the single moms who have spent an entire day taking care of their kids, and they want to sit back and relax to something fun that isn't particularly challenging.

http://www.slideshare.net/ctrottier1/designing-games-for-the...

What do you mean by "game loop"?

Surely something like Farmville has some gameplay elements, right? I've never played it, but there are some choices to be made (shall I get chickens or cows), right?

this is what I meant by game loop: http://whatgamesare.com/2010/12/functions-vs-loops-finding-f...

'strong game loop' was vague, what I meant was what I said in the last sentence, that you can enjoy playing a traditional game without rewards. It is fun to play on its own merit. If you take away the rewards from a social game, it can't stand up on it's own as a 'fun game'.

In Farmville, there are gameplay elements, but its very minimal. In Cow Clicker, another social game, there are no game mechanics at all. There are some 'hardcore' social game companies, like Kabam, but they end up just having more elaborate reward feedback mechanisms.

Yeah, of course, but the gameplay is largely cyclical and repeated