[anuraj]

What I don't understand about Europe is

1. They are facing a huge negative demographic dividend.

2. They are facing steep inflation, low energy and food security and lower economic growth.

3. High social security costs may not be sustainable in the long term.

4. Finance is crumbling and real economy is taking over. Monetary expansion had its run and is no longer the panacea.

How will they handle this and still emerge unscathed while competing with China and India and Indonesia and the likes.

[timkam]

The idea is that 4-hours work weeks for relatively highly skilled knowledge workers will actually help lower the costs for the social security system (less burnouts, early retirements) and a more productive society (instead of 'grinding out' pointlessly long hours, work less and contribute to society in your free time) -- work is merely one way to be productive in society.

[adamsmith143]

>How will they handle this and still emerge unscathed while competing with China and India and Indonesia and the likes.

This isn't even accurate. What is EU competing with China and India on? It should the reverse if anything, how will India and China compete in High Tech and Precision Manufacturing with the West when they are suffering massive brain drain?

[anuraj]

Sheer numbers and growth rate. China and India are huge markets and growing. Europe is a mature market which is stagflated. US has some more growth left.

[adamsmith143]

But that's not a direct competition. Europe can't possibly match their growth rates

[Omniusaspirer]

Agreed on all points. Europe should serve as a warning to the rest of the world of what happens when you become complacent- the decline from earlier centuries to now is just staggering and shows no signs of slowing. Many of the lauded social benefits aren't actually sustainable long term and the stifling business climate has forced governments to become increasingly protectionary which is a death spiral for competitiveness long term.

[atonse]

I’m all for experimenting with hours.

But it is something only information workers can do because productivity doesn’t translate linearly to hours put in.

But anything physical, manufacturing, etc, it is simply more time = more output.

Unless we use more and more automation and better tools of course. Which is also happening.

[mjburgess]

Immigration -- they'll be a move to a two-tired (zero-hours, contract-only, fire-at-will) base largely made up of the young and immigrants. Then gold-plated 4d work-from-home jobs for 45-65s.

[jstummbillig]

Higher import tariffs are a mid term solution, but in the end nation states and national governance are dysfunctional concepts for an ultimately globalized world.

[giorgioz]

I'm from Rome, Italy and I feel like I'm on a sinking boat where everyone is enthusiastically carving holes in the bottom.

My grand-parents bought a house to my parents when they were 27. My parents had it easy and never learned personal finance. They refused to lend me 30k to start a mortgage for the house in Budapest, Hungary despite having 2 young kids because they didn't trust Hungary stability and wanted me to go back to Italy.

They have been keeping 60k in their checking account for the past 10 years. I've tried to convince them to invest a part of it in ETF but my father wrote me that: "They have invested in the Italian social security system and they have no need for other investments other than their government pensions and the house they own". Real estate value in Rome has declined 30% since 2012.

I have been telling them about the population decline and how the pension system is gonna go belly up in the future. Then Elon Musk also tweeted about Italy grim population collapse future last month. I told my father in great distress that I was sadly right. He told me I'm working too much and I need to relax and essentially he won't be taking advice from me because I'm not thinking straight, implying I need medical attention.

Try to save Italy and you will be called crazy.