[bjornsing]

I’ve spent a lot of time in the opposite work culture: Sweden. It has its pros and cons, but to be honest I’d move to Silicon Valley in a heartbeat if it wasn’t for the bureaucracy involved.

> It’s ok to go to work because it’s a means to an end.

Sure, that should be okay. But if someone wants to spend their free time studying, should that not be allowed? Should they be passed up for promotion because of it? Should your “code family” help you feel shame for it?

It’s not easy to strike a good balance between those who do seek self-realization in work and those who see it as a means to an end. Instead of having these two groups fight it out in every workplace I think society should provide opportunities for both. (But you can’t complain if those that prioritize work over everything else have more interesting and rewarding careers.)

[ZeroGravitas]

If you make the same argument for people spending time in the office, you might see the problem.

It's a race to the bottom. Sure that one guy with no friends or family has nowhere else to go, so he doesn't care, but if he gets rewarded for it, everyone else gets dragged in and we've decided that long hours aren't productive anyway, and certainly don't replace the time spent with friends and family.

Taking risks is another, more extreme, example. What if someone has terminal cancer or just doesn't care if he lives? There's probably many jobs they can do faster since they're not trying particular hard to stay alive.

It's maybe harder to see the problem when someone is super keen on their work, but I think we'd all be better off if they channelled that energy into something else of equal mental stimulation separate from their work.

[bjornsing]

Of course people shouldn’t be paid more just because they spend more time in the office. But if they also get more done, and learn more, then what’s wrong with that leading to better pay and more opportunities?

If you value other things over work but are incapable of making that choice if others are rewarded for hard work, then that’s your problem. Seek therapy or something.

[ZeroGravitas]

We can't even reward people correctly for effort in the real world, that's why you need to spend time marketing your success on top of the actual effort of doing them, and why people are so wedded to hours spent on task rather than any real life metric of success.

Please dont mess up the lives of people who live in the real world for something that barely works in theory.

[bjornsing]

> Please dont mess up the lives of people who live in the real world for something that barely works in theory.

Again: If you can’t make your life choices in line with your values if there are incentives for hard work, then that’s your problem.