[matheusmoreira]

EFF calls this adversarial interoperability:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/10/adversarial-interopera...

A digital civil war is preferable to surrendering to the designs of exploitative corporations. We should fight back on principle. We should block ads and tracking, scrape websites, reverse engineer private APIs, violate DRM technology, replace their proprietary apps with our own free software that we control, feed them false data to poison their data sets... We should do everything we possibly can to defeat any attempt to exploit us. We don't need their permission to do it either.

Turning things into crimes is the corporation's game. They're the ones with billions of dollars and expensive lobbyists. We shouldn't be trying to beat them in this space. We need ubiquitous subversive technology that neutralizes their exploitation whether the laws allow it or not. It shouldn't matter whether it's legal or illegal. We need technology that makes it impossible for them to exploit us in any way, and we define what is and isn't acceptable or exploitative.

[geysersam]

That sounds like an arms race that's both wasteful and difficult to win. Why should we not use the tools democracy provides to shape society? These corporations are not out to get us. They maximize profit constrained by the regulatory environment. We have to guide them, and channel their capacity for good.

[matheusmoreira]

> That sounds like an arms race that's both wasteful and difficult to win.

It is.

> Why should we not use the tools democracy provides to shape society?

We should, if we can. I'm just not holding my breath.

I think copyright should be abolished but the trillion dollar companies that depend on it will never allow that to happen. So we're better off de facto abolishing it by making copyright unenforceable and eliminating consequences for copyright infringement.

I think advertising should be illegal but companies like Google will never let that happen. So I use software like uBlock Origin to block ads whenever I can.

[sbarre]

>I think advertising should be illegal but companies like Google will never let that happen. So I use software like uBlock Origin to block ads whenever I can.

Honest question (and I am not fan of advertising here and not trying to be an apologist)..

What business model replaces it, in your mind?

In the world that exists today, how do companies who provide free services online (including the creation of information) pay their staff and their operational costs, if not through being paid to display ads or sponsorships?

Do all websites become subscriptions?

[wahnfrieden]

The replacement is not another business model

[sbarre]

Sure that's a nice thought.. Then reality comes knocking.

[wahnfrieden]

See capitalist realism

[_jal]

> Why should we not use the tools democracy provides to shape society?

Turns out that's also a Red Queen's race. And if you look at the lobbying costs vs. potential rewards, there's a lot of room for escalation in US politics.