[jfengel]

I take your point, but there is no way on God's green earth that I am going to look at a map for even an instant while descending that fast. My eyes are locked on the ground scanning for the tiniest crack or piece of junk that would send me to my doom.

I can't imagine going any direction except straight at that speed.

[Brian_K_White]

Good habits is orthoganal to good equipment.

Sure you should maybe not try to look at a map except at certain times and not certain other times.

Yeah, and, shit happens. Life is messy. Cycling is inherently chaotic and your own input merely helps.

I don't see "you shouldn't do that" as a good excuse for "your equipment doesn't have to, but by choice, it helps kill you if you don't always do everything perfectly" not to mention, the danger from removing a hand from bars is not even remotely limited to 50mph hills.

You shouldn't put your hand into the table saw, AND table saws have guards.

[deebosong]

Can I echo this sentiment?

I also understand the frustration of losing key features... But yeah, I don't wanna be near anyone peepin down on their map while blasting down a descent at 40-50 mph lol. You better be laser focused on everything in your peripheral and immediate field of view, and look at all the data/ metrics/ navigation after the fact.

[karamanolev]

It's not for everyone, it's dangerous and it should be done carefully and skillfully, but...

I cycle 300+ miles per week. 1 or 2 100mi rides a week. Descending at 40mph and checking the map, assuming it's already on the computer, is not a problem. If the road in front of you is empty, it's not hugely different than being in a car. Actually, in a car, you might be going 60 in the same place. Are you telling me you never check where to go going 60?

I'd say that doing 25mph in a peloton (or your friendly neighborhood group ride) when riding 8in from the person in front and checking your map is more dangerous than going 40 on an open road with plenty of room, but I can tell you, everyone checks their bike computers on group rides.

I'm curious to know if the people saying "oh laser focus on the road never look at your Garmin" are road cyclists having frequently ridden in fast group rides.

[taude]

I'm not sure I fully understand your use case? Why would you be looking at the map in the middle of a fast descent like that. Were you already not aware that you'd have to slam your brakes on halfway down the hill for a right-turn before you even started the descend?

And I think the argument holds even less water in a fast group ride. Does no one in the group, especially the people at the front know where the group ride is going? If everyone is half lost, surely it'd be going pretty slow while someone calibrated where the group should be going....

[karamanolev]

1. On a fast descent I like to know what the turns coming up look like. Also, sometimes we follow the main road, sometimes we turn out at some point. If it's a 100mi ride that was planned online, even the planner doesn't know it by heart. You have to look occasionally.

2. No, you're not aware when you have to slam on your brakes. The descent can be 10 minutes long at a high speed. You don't know every single corner by heart. You look at the map.

3. The people at the front know where we're going, but sometimes they miss things. It's nice to shout things at them when they do. They also rotate. I know there's a bit of gravel on this road, but they don't. I tell them. I know because I know we're passing town X or side street Y.

4. Even in a group, I'd like to know if there's a sharp turn coming, going into the city, etc. I want to know my heart rate, power, cadence, etc. I'd like to know how long the false flat that we're on lasts or when the next climb is coming up.

[talove]

I'll also add, you might be riding brakes preparing for a turn on a descent. Under many road conditions, especially a steep descent, a road bike is much more likely to break traction than a car which can literally be fatal (sliding out into an opposing lane, barrier, or off an edge). Anybody who has descended, even at reasonably safe speeds on a road bike with a bike computer knows it is the safe thing to do.

[kcmastrpc]

If I'm going down a relatively new descent, I'll use the bike map computer to visually confirm if there is a sharp turn or other hazard that might be on a blind corner (side roads connecting). I only need to glance at it, but it's very useful.

[karamanolev]

Yep. Can confirm. Quick glance, tells you what you need to know. Car drivers (sad to admit myself included) take their eyes off the road for much much longer. What I'm saying is that you do look at the bike computer.

[deebosong]

Just wanna say, I believe you. You def sound like a high level rider who isn't fazed by those speeds in those conditions, and it feels very controllable for you. And like you assumed, I don't do group rides often (and when I do, I'm not gonna be checking any bike computers).

[karamanolev]

Thanks :) I've been doing fast and frequent group rides for years. Haven't had accidents in a group yet, knock on wood. FWIW, I get more easily distracted when I'm alone. People riding 5in from me doing 25+mph keep me quite alert.

What I think is good if you get a lot of experience on the bike before you start doing group rides. That's what I did. Some people get fitness quickly after starting the sport and when they join the group rides, it gets dangerous - no bike handling skills, but the speed is high.

[skeeter2020]

> it's dangerous and it should be done carefully and skillfully, but..

the OP's original complaint was that the feature removal created the danger, so I'm glad you state that the act is already dangerous.

[wolverine876]

> If the road in front of you is empty, it's not hugely different than being in a car.

What do you mean? It seems hugely different to me for the obvious reasons.

[karamanolev]

I mean that for a skilled rider, the breaking distance doing 40mph on a bike is shorter than 60mph on a car. Also the distance travelled during reaction time is longer doing 60mph, so a given distance to a dangerous object allows for way less distraction time in a car.

People get more distracted in a car, because the environment is so calm inside. The rushing wind, constant vibrations and the physicality of riding a bicycle fast keeps you way more alert and doesn't dull your background sense of danger like a car does.

Hitting a pothole you didn't notice in a bike is quite startling - "oh, I better pay more attention, that wasn't nice". In a car you're like "meh, that didn't sound very nice for the suspension, back to my SMS on the phone".

[talove]

In popular road cycling areas, things like 10+ mile descents aren't unusual. Momentarily glances at the map is how you know you need to slow down.

As an example, search YouTube for a video of someone descending a road in the Santa Monica mountains.