[Bubble_Pop_22]

> So far, the "human species has value" faction has been winning for.. well, forever, since we aren't extinct. Yet.

No, it was the "my life and the life of my family has value". The human specie wins as byproduct of that

[giantg2]

That's basically what I was going for. We have subjective value and mostly self value. I wonder if we provide any objective net benefit when looking from non human centric perspective.

[salawat]

Looking at it from an objective, systemic approach, you and yours have zero possibility of survival of an Earth biosphere destabilizing event.

A chance can be acquired. If you're going to hide behind the "greedy genes" train of thought, you will need to look elsewhere for a justification on why this would be bad.

[Bubble_Pop_22]

> Looking at it from an objective, systemic approach, you and yours have zero possibility of survival of an Earth biosphere destabilizing event.

I don't think that is going to be my problem or my children's problem or my grandchildren's.

Once you have exhausted that, well who cares what happens next.

And mind that I am a pretty long term view guy compared to 99% of the population. The vast majority of the human population doesn't care about what would happen 5 or 10 years from now. I suspect righfully so.

At some point even intellectuals have to admit that time spent worrying is subtracted from the time spent living.

So basically yeah, let's dig up all the oil, light that on fire to propel our amazing house party and run the place into the ground.

We may never live forever so we better live for now.

[giantg2]

"Looking at it from an objective, systemic approach, you and yours have zero possibility of survival of an Earth biosphere destabilizing event."

And why would that be a bad thing? The question isn't about the human centric perspective (which you're still taking). The question is about what net benefit does humanity provide the Earth or, potentially in the future, other planets. Why would out extinction be a bad thing from a non-human perspective?

I'm not sure why you're bringing "greedy genes" into this.

[salawat]

As far as benefit to planet goes, I'll be honest, not tracking it. I'm tracking benefit to life and biosphere, which I do think is becoming increasingly connected with human self-interest, as we are very much the most active "shepherds" of the biosphere we inhabit.

Life as we know it will likely not exist anywhere but where we take it, and put in place the conditions for it's continued existence.

The Earth, or Mars having an interest or value impact is... Honestly a non-issue in my book. Call me biased against inanimate objects if you like, you won't be wrong.

[webmaven]

Well, if we manage to spread off planet, we'll be spreading Earth's biosphere as well, which if the biosphere were capable of expressing an opinion, would likely approve.