[jhap]

I don't think most people "lie about it", at least not intentionally.

I think it's more likely they get really caught up in the moment or something among those lines. I am interested in what in what it would be like to go to a concert of a bar with one of these people.

[pessimizer]

> I don't think most people "lie about it", at least not intentionally.

No, they do, and are usually pushed into it by prayer retreats and a forced lack of sleep (in the stories I've heard.) It's after they fake it once in order to sleep, then get into the habit of faking it, that they decide that they were never actually faking it, retconning the first incident into an awakening.

It was once only tiny pentecostal sects that did this (speak in tongues), but evangelical churches grew out of that tradition and took over the world. Literally didn't exist 100 years ago. It's also where we got faith healing and snake-handling.

edit: Again, barely older than Scientology or the Nation of Islam.

[cgio]

So they don’t lie about it. From their perspective they reinterpret sleep deprivation as metaphysical labour to culminate in ecstatic mystical experience. Especially in puritanical, austere contexts the power to shape an experienced story, such that there is a communal acceptance of a form of pleasure, is valuable, and the more unintentional the reinterpretation the more profound its influence and expression.

[mistermann]

What percentage of the congregation ticks all these boxes, consistently over time?

[JetAlone]

One of my takeaways from listening to a lot of Telltale (an ex Jehovah's Witness atheist channel on youtube) was that the stereotypical charismatic Christian glossolalia is probably a learned skill. I have heard that people who left these groups are still capable of exhibiting it on command.

I have not actually met an ex-charismatic who could demonstrate this to me, but I would be interested in meeting one. I have never done glossolalia myself, I always thought there was something off about it. I have been at a charismatic church where people were practicing it. I was relieved that they were not extremely loud, they weren't rolling or flailing around, but I admit I found the audible chaos of it somewhat unnerving. I've heard charismatic Christians speak of the presence of God, or of spiritual power as a feeling of "electricity" or tingling. It seems to me that a major aim in that movement is to feel highly energized.

I ended up in a faith tradition that has a difficult but slow, calm, scripted practice, one that evangelicals would be likely to call "vain repetitions". I think the accusation could stick that I badly wanted some beauty and order. I believe that the gift of tongues is experienced as a miraculous automatic translation in the spoken word; we see it as a reversal of what happened at the tower of Babel.

[prewett]

Some charismatics say that spiritual gifts have a learned element. “Teaching” is listed as a spiritual gift and no one expects teachers to not need to develop skills, why would prophesying, discerning spirits, speaking in tongues, interpreting tongues, etc. be any different. Of course, there are stories of people spontaneously speaking in tongues because their tongue was moving on its own. My view is that most speaking in tongues is … optimistic, but I also heard a story where one woman was just saying the same syllables over and over, and one day a visitor came over and asked her “do you know what you are saying?” “No” “it’s an African language, and I’m one of about five outsiders who have learned it; you’re saying ‘praise God praise God praise God’. I also met a Vietnamese guy that could not speak English, but his group needed to speak to the English-speaking admin of the camp to seek asylum. This group appointed him as spokesman, and prayed that he would be able to speak English. The next day he went in to talk to the guy, and had no problems being understood, because he was speaking intelligible English without realizing it, and none of them having ever learned English. Those stories are the exceptions, although since charismatics tend to value the experience of God, those tend to be the “expected normal”. The miracles make great stories to tell, but the more normal miracle is mixed with the mundane and not easy to identify (after all, Christ is human and divine, how do you tell which is which? This mixture of human and divine seems to be what the Bible describes God as seeking, so it would make sense he would prefer to work that way)

I’ve experienced tingling strongly one time. It was sort of like a non-localized internal “buzzing”, kind of like if you’d drunk a lot of coffee but without the tightening of the muscles. I’ve also experienced kind of an internal itch, where it’s just easier to shake my hands.

The charismatics I’ve been a part of are more of the love flavor, though. (e.g. “but we do not have a spirit of fear, but of love, power, and [wisdom]”) This feels like a warmth in the chest, and if you partner with it tends to lead either to feeling very relaxed and happy, or more energetic and happy.

It took me quite a while to be able to sense it, though, similar to how it took me a long time be able to taste the flavor of an individual herb in a dish of food. And there’s an element of partnering, too. If you’re resistant to the whole idea, or mad at God/the Church/people/life you’re a lot less likely to experience it. There are times where I missed the experience because I was resistant. Also, it seems like some people are quicker to be affected; by the time I sense something strongly, everyone else is likely to be on the floor. I’m not sure if it’s something about how I’m made or just a resistance to being out of control.

[throwaway5752]

I really don't care what it would be like to go to a social event with one of those people, nor do I care to deeply plumb the depths of the distinction between a lie and untruth.

[mistrial9]

cues hardcore hip-hop