[kwatsonafter]

I think it's worth noting-- there's some serious work exploring these kinds of things in the ancient world (Temple of Kykeon, Soma of the Rg Veda, Amrta, Cintamani) and it's still an open subject. Terence McKenna theorized that Psilocybin mushrooms might be responsible for, "mystical visions through substance" but as a practicing, "Hindu" (Chaitanya follower) I've come to find that in the case of the mystical substances of ancient India that there's actually a very involved and very profound philosophical tradition(s) surrounding Amrta (Love of Godhead; Bhakti) Soma (Moon Juice for The God of Heaven) and Cintamani (Puranic equivalent of the Philosopher's Stone) that really doesn't have anything to do with, "psychedelic culture" outside of being generally mind expanding.

tl;dr: She was last holy remnant of the age the Hellenic Greeks idealized about-- The Homeric period before book culture and the Sophists. The time when magic and unadulterated heroism ruled the Earth. Think about Tolkien the next time you trip. The magic isn't in a molecule baby, it's in us!

[kordlessagain]

There was a World Day fair at UC Davis a few years back. One tent had Hari Krishnas in it. I asked one of the Hari Krishnas, "Do you visualize?", and he replied with a beam, "Oh, yes. I do visualize and I love it! I see all sorts of wonderful things." He then pushed a colorful copy of the Rig Veda in my hands and ran off smiling.

A bit later I went over to the Zen booth and talked to a young monk. They had no materials in the booth, only a piece of paper with the swooshed circle symbol. After talking to him briefly I asked, "Do you visualize?". He looked at me calmly for just a moment and then replied, "I practice Zen." I then repeated myself, asking " Yes, but do you visualize?". Immediately he replied, "I practice Zen."

Later I would joke it was at the moment I became enlightened, but understanding this from a fundamental standpoint is both a choice of faith and a logical conclusion done by the mind.

People do visualize, but some people don't. Practicing Zen is about not adding to things, but living in the moment and being aware of your surroundings. The monk may have been able to visualize, but he knew that doing so would pull him out of the moment so he didn't.

Conversely, the Hari Krishna visualized at will, by his own admission when I was asking about it, and allowed it to be a thing he was aware of in the few moments we spoke.

[kwatsonafter]

There's a lot here in your comment-- Thanks for the reply! I'm actually a practicing, "Hare Krsna Devotee" under Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda Dev-Goswami Maharaj in the line of Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math.

I think there's so much in different spiritual circles. What seems to unite them all is a kind of concept of, "surrendering wholeheartedly to..." and I think that manifests itself in a huge diversity of ways. I think that what Zen ends up missing is a viable moral concept and an explanation of what, "love" actually is at a metaphysical level. The reversi-logic Koan thing gets really old after awhile but I can appreciate how that might resonate with some people. Zen is very, "interesting" but having sat on the mat for some time that the, "great realization" has always been, "stop holding out for a great realization; it's all a crock of shit including the crock of shit you tell yourself that it's all a crock of shit." I know a lot of old burnout hippy-boomer types that got lost in Zen land and never found their way back. I also know a lot of Hare Krsna devotees that got lost in Prabhupadaland. I think it's worth noting that pretty soon we're both going to be biologically dead forever.

I suppose it's all worth a consider. Hare Krsna Prabhuji!