[SemanticStrengh]

I am wondering how much immune "budget" do humans have for vaccines? This topic is left unadressed and is extremely worrying, being an existential risk. Basically, the body has a limited amount of unspecialized naive T cells in its lifetime, mostly located/modulated in the thymus gland, which involute quickly with age.

I suppose that 1) vaccines increase the rate of specialisation of naive T cells to mature t cells (hence the number of naive t cells diminish supraphysically)and I also believe that

2) those specific mature T cells, generating covid spike protein specific antibodies, have lost some or total ability to fight non-covid diseases as a cost of specialization. 1) would increase thymus involution rate and therefore age speed of immunosupression.

2) would reduce generic immune ability (learning other pathogens)

3) I believe the increased immune profile after a vaccine induce a long lasting (at least 6 month) increase of accelerated aging process in humans, via increased inflammation and therefore apoptosis, DNA mutations and oxidative stress, although in a mild form and hence in the medium term asymptomatic.

Above all the premises I enumerated, the 2) is the one I would draw the most attention to, which can be reformulated as: do the repetitive administrations of a vaccine (here the 3 mRNA doses), reduce the effectiveness of the immune system for future non-COVID diseases, and even more importantly, does those doses reduce the immune learnability budget and therefore do those vaccines reduce the effectiveness of future vaccines against the next non-COVID pandemic? There has to be a limit to immune memory, the question is, after how many vaccines do the effect become non-negligible on aging?

study backing chronic inflammation and therefore accelerated aging: > vaccine-induced hypermetabolic lymph nodes https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34857663/

study backing the depletion of lymphocite T helper cell production: Study Shows Immune Cells Against Covid-19 Stay High in Number Six Months After Vaccination https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/newsroom/news-releases/....

Moreover, I have an issue understanding why would vaccine not massively lose effectiveness after the age of 70 since at 70 the thymus has ~completely involuted (although maybe the stem cells in the bone marrow suffice?).

[SideburnsOfDoom]

> I am wondering how much immune "budget" do humans have for vaccines? ... Basically, the body has a limited amount of unspecialized naive T cells in its lifetime

I'm not a medical professional, so I suspect that my opinion is just as much gibberish as yours clearly is, but with more self-awareness.

Anyway, why would that "budget" be "for vaccines" _only_ ? Vaccines trigger the same mechanism as actual viral attacks, so you may as well ask "does the human immune system have a limited budget to respond to repeated viral attacks". It's the same question. And consider what answer would have better evolutionary fitness.

[SemanticStrengh]

> I suspect that my opinion is just as much gibberish as yours clearly is, but with more self-awareness.

OK thank you layman for your ad-hominem, I have extensive expertise in medecine and pharmacology and have extensively studied the thymus, spleen, associated peptides and immune and aging biomarkers, so what seems to you as gibberish is actual valid statements or for a few ones, very reasonable and necessary to be asked speculations. But indeed, an expert is often difficult to distinguish from a bullshitter when the layman lacks discernment, a formation in epistemology nor care to check any of the sourced premises.

> why would that "budget" be "for vaccines" _only_ ?

Well for starters I do not question wether there is a budget limit, there is it is a fact. I even explain in detail that a necessary component in the equation are naive lymphocite T and that aging and environement stressors induce an atrophy (involution/shrinkage) of the thymus and therefore of the total number of differentiated mature lymphocytes T. Also obviously I do not say that this only apply for vaccines, real covid is not much different from the spike protein and in fact induce more damage, however the question has to be asked, regardless.

> consider what answer would have better evolutionary fitness

and yet having a limit is an evolutionary fitness as show the existence of thymus involution, both for reduced energy use and programmed aging evolutionnary benefits as shows the many papers on the topic. Obviously, as you should have guessed, the limit only matter to not be reached before the age of reproduction, which is < 20 years old

[SideburnsOfDoom]

> I have extensive expertise in medecine and pharmacology

a) not present in your comment history - clearly that's not your focus area - and b) not even spelled correctly and c) I do not believe you

> and have extensively studied the thymus, spleen, associated peptides

Uh uh. Heart, liver and associated oligosaccharides. Gotcha. (this is equally irrelevant gibberish when talking about immune system responses)

> I do not say that this only apply for vaccines

Yeah, you do say that, you say "I am wondering how much immune "budget" do humans have for vaccines?"

[antiterra]

12 days is ages ago, but:

While we should always question declarations of expertise without evidence, YCombinator is a place of curiosity and immediately dismissing someone's consideration as gibberish is counter-productive and rude.

> a) not present in your comment history - clearly that's not your focus area - and b) not even spelled correctly and c) I do not believe you

I disagree, there's a significant amount of detailed information in the comment history that suggests this (although I am not vouching for accuracy of any of it.)

> > and have extensively studied the thymus, spleen, associated peptides > Uh uh. Heart, liver and associated oligosaccharides. Gotcha. (this is equally irrelevant gibberish when talking about immune system responses)

Wrong. You didn't even do a web search to check.

The thymus produces immune cells. The spleen generates lymphocytes in response to foreign micro-organisms/viruses. Spleen peptides are used for enhancing immune function after radiation therapy and chemotherapy.

> Yeah, you do say that, you say "I am wondering how much immune "budget" do humans have for vaccines?"

No. Wondering about an immune budget for vaccines does preclude the possibility an immune budget applies to natural immunity.