[lostgame]

As a queer girl myself; I appreciate the support, along with any and all progress towards stopping this shameful backwards march America is madly dedicated to.

For a country that likes to jerk itself off about being the epitome of ‘freedom’, they sure do like to tell people what to do.

A country where I can get a gun without a background check - but potentially be arrested for an abortion - is the definition of ‘fucked up priorities’.

Saddening recent events have only proven this is more true than ever.

[f154hfds]

Respectfully what does the 15 week abortion ban and the elementary school sex education restrictions have to do with safety in a tech conference?

[lostgame]

I never said it was anything to do with safety. It's a statement against an oppressive move from a government increasingly uninterested in the people it governs.

However - here's where safety comes in. As a queer/trans woman, I don't particularly feel safe (at all, really) in the southern states (California excluded, I guess?) - Florida and Texas, especially.

People are actively, regularly violent towards LGTBQ+ people down there. And, of course - it's not the ban - it's the attitude behind it - and the people behind it who are dangerous, and are often violent people with guns.

I've rejected a handful of paid business travel opportunities because they were either in Texas or Florida. It's not worth it on the chance I run into some psychotic anti-gay Christian and their gun, demanding I get the hell out of their city...again. (Yes, this has already actually happened to me...)

[f154hfds]

You seem to be referring to a general cultural attitude in the south ("violent toward LGBTQ+") than the particular laws which perhaps are a legislative expression of the southern population's animus? In which case you treat the south on the same spectrum as say Afganistan where the cultural and legislative environment is so hostile you would refrain from even visiting?

[lostgame]

The laws are a direct result of these people existing and voting for them, and a symptom of the oppressive environment that awaits for LGTBQ+ folk who visit, or - worse - live, there.

And of course I would never visit Afghanistan, either!

[f154hfds]

> For a country that likes to jerk itself off about being the epitome of ‘freedom’, they sure do like to tell people what to do.

> The laws are a direct result of these people existing and voting for them.

I see these as contradictory statements. In reality independent legislatures are making laws along the lines of their constituency's prevailing ideology. Both sides of this cultural divide are increasingly unable or unwilling to even entertain each others' points of view in good faith debate.

[jmclnx]

I guess I will be flagged or down-voted, but I have to ask.

From your response, are you saying it is OK to vote for people who actively support discrimination against a segment of people ?

How is allowing people to live their life without State Sanctioned harassment a "point of view" ?

[shuntress]

Pre-pending an arbitrary question with "respectfully" does not automatically make it more respectful. In this case, it seems to actually do the opposite.

[f154hfds]

Apologies then, I'm trying to indicate that I'm curious about the reasoning behind this perspective and open to a good-faith discussion on it. Your decision to not engage with my question and instead criticize my articulation leads me to think this discussion won't happen.

[threatofrain]

The statement from GopherCon was about the alignment of values, and lostgame is expressing gratitude for moral support in a harsh social environment. Why do you frame your discussion in terms of safety when the thread is about the alignment of values and the support of people such as lostgame? Do you think your framing is a better one than what was provided in the thread so far?

Shall we talk more about conference security instead?

[f154hfds]

The statement gave two reasons I can see for moving the venue, both were related to recent law changes in Florida:

> Florida no longer represents the safe and family-friendly destination we envisioned when we first selected the location.

> we feel a strong moral and ethical obligation to ensure that the location of GopherCon aligns with the values of our community.

The latter justification leads me to ask: how do we ascertain what our community values are? Why do these particular values weigh more than others?

[orwin]

I think "protect the weak, engage/debate the strong" is worth way more than the reverse, for no reason, it is just an moral intuition.

Another way of thinking this is utilitarian: non-queer people will not be target of violence by armed (or even unarmed drunk) people in Nevada or California, while the LGBTQ community is at a greater risk of being the target of violence in TX or FL. So having the local governement pushing the "don't say gay" bill, and announcing it that strongly (only heard of it because of the Disney debacle) to me can only be a kind of "virtue signalling", the kind of virtue being: all against LGBTQ+ people.

[edit: forgot conclusion] thus for utilitatian purpose, it is better to have the convention in state where violences against marginalized communities present in tech are the lowest, or at least don't seems state-sanctioned.

[mcphage]

> The latter justification leads me to ask: how do we ascertain what our community values are?

Well, talk to your community and find out. Ask them what matters to them, what they think is important, how they want the world to change.