[biorach]

that study doesn't show that "organic farming and permaculture nearly always yields higher per acre output"

It's about cultivating vegetables in a specific, labour intestine, urban environment, and is partly speculative.

It's not about organic farming yields in general which are generally significantly lower that those of conventional farming.

[wing-_-nuts]

I'm not defending a thesis here. You asked for a source for the assertion that one could have high yields under organic farming and I provided one. I understand organic farming yields are lower when comparing against most conventional agriculture, but your original assertion (I hate we don't have thread context in reply windows) was implying that we couldn't properly feed everyone fruits / veg using organic agriculture. I highly doubt that. Maybe organic would require more labor or different automation than simply dousing everything with roundup and pesticides, but we could do it. We simply have to decide to prioritize health and environmental impacts over cost.

[biorach]

I was looking for a source for :

> Everything I've read on organic farming and permaculture _nearly always_ yields higher per acre output

_nearly always_

Your second assertion is accurate:

> organic farming yields are lower when comparing against most conventional agriculture

I didn't at any stage say "we couldn't properly feed everyone fruits / veg using organic agriculture" - maybe you're mixing me up with some other commenter. What I do think is that currently we are not in a position where we could feed the world's population only with organic (not just fruit and vegetable - grains, meat etc also).

Parts of Africa are facing grain shortages due to disruptions in the supply in Ukraine. This shows how tight supplies are.

Those chemicals ( and I'm no fan) do enable a massive increase in yields. There's no "simply" - I agree with you that a move away is desirable, but it is far from simple or easy.