[cookiecaper]

I don't believe my response was offensive and I agree that the OP is arguing his point within bounds. I just strongly disagree with that point, and as stated, believe it is typical of a non-technical hiring manager instead of an "in the trenches" programmer.

How would you have preferred I phrased my response? I don't think any part is "unnecessarily offensive". It is a forgone conclusion that people on HN don't want to work for big companies, so if he is a hiring manager, he shouldn't be surprised.

[bane]

I wasn't offended, and I'm not a hiring manager. But I've definitely done most of my hiring in large boring mega corps. For the small startups I've worked for, willingness to work at a small startup often has major weight in the decision process and can overcome other problems that might exclude them from big corp's process.

[tptacek]

I'm personally familiar with the hiring processes at most of the big "mega corps" in the software industry (ie, places where software is the company's key profit center and not a cost center). So, because lots of people are reading this thread, let me clear this up right now:

You do not need an "Education" section on your resume to get a job interview at any software company in the valley you'd ever want to work at.

If you're interested in the kind of company 'bane appears to hire for, I'd recommend reading this first:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1994193

[bane]

Again, disagree and wasn't aware we were restricting ourselves to only the Valley.

Yes, you need an education section on your resume. Only apply to companies that you wish to work for. Some will care about it, others won't. Those that don't care won't look at it, those that do will be glad you put it on. It's a Pascal's wager of sorts.

If you are applying to work at Matasano, by all means, delete it from your resume.

I've hired (or participated in the hiring team for) several hundred people for large companies (~35,000 employees, ~45,000 employees, ~125,000 employees respectively) and small (2 employees, 11 employees, 5 employees, 15 employees), for contract work (110 FTEs, 510 FTEs, 30 FTEs) and medium to large projects (30 FTEs, 80 FTEs). I've also cross-hired from different departments, projects, and programs.

I've personally seen probably on the order of 10,000 resumes.

I've never seen a resume of a person that was eventually hired that lacked at least a minimal education section -- and it didn't have to be a college degree.

I've sought out specific hires and have been sought out.

I've hired for positions that are salary only, salary + comission, salary + options, salary + direct stock, or some mix.

I've hired people with highly specialized skillsets and generalists.

I've hired sales people, programmers, analysts, executives, executive assistants, operations managers, operations staff, designers, musicians (yes!) and receptionists.

I've never like using recruiters or big job sites. I prefer to hire people with passion for what they do, and interview for personality as well as technical aptitude. You don't always get that luxury depending on the market and immediate business needs, but it's highly desired.

Education is a big plus, but I've never turned down somebody because of a lack of if they make up for it in experience, portfolio or other compensating factors.

I've never regretted a candidate I turned down. I can count on one hand people that slipped through my radar and ended up as real duds. I can count on two hands people that I turned down that were picked up by other companies and turned out to be real duds for them.

I've had to personally work with most of my hires either as a direct colleague, a report, or as a manager.

Who else uses a process not entirely dissimilar? Any company that asks for a resume, then gives you an interview (of any sort) based on that initial look at you. This includes, Google, Apple, Facebook, Microsoft, Amazon, Intel, Cisco, Oracle and major software focused divisions of other companies like SAIC, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, General Dynamics, Northrup Grumman, etc.

Unless the company has a site called "apply to work here" where you just give them your name and a callback #, they care about your resume on some level. Even if it's just to have it on file to cover their asses in case of a bad hire.

If you don't want to work for these companies, that's cool. I don't either, and I have the luxury of not doing that at present since I work for a 10 person startup in my day job (and a two person for my night job). But I still consult with #52, #217 and #219 on the 2011 Fortune 500 almost weekly on hiring people.

But I'm just here to tell you the "way it is" (TM). If you want to be considered at these places, and unless you have some kind of other way of demonstrating your personal awesomeness, put an education section down.

[tptacek]

You are probably dead on in terms of what it takes to get a programming job at a giant defense contractor (those F500's being Lockheed, ITT, and shudder SAIC).

Let me just say, because this is a neutral comment: look, you have nothing to lose by putting "Education" on your resume. It's not like I'm not going to take you seriously because you stuck your CMU GPA on your resume. So if you're worried about getting past every possible hiring manager, you should include it.