[trasz]

Can you point me to the documents describing systemic (EDIT: Systemic, as opposed to a crime committed by a rogue prison guard) torture in those “camps”?

Guantanamo is indeed different, because it was only used for people to extract information from - vast majority of “war against terrorism” victims have been simply killed instead.

[md_]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55794071

[trasz]

You will find similar testimonies about prisons in western countries. It’s sad, but unavoidable due to scale.

[md_]

Two points:

1. I'm confused. Your original request was, "Can you point me to the documents describing systemic torture in those 'camps'?" Clearly the BBC article outlines fairly substantial evidence of systemic torture in Chinese-run prison camps in Xinjiang. Would you not agree?

2. It's possible for one to criticize the human rights abuses in American prisons--which absolutely exist, I agree--while simultaneously criticizing the human rights abuses in Chinese prisons. If we must make a comparison of scale, the Chinese ones seem far, far worse, of course. But I don't think we need make a comparison; this thread was about Chinese prison camps, and you asked for evidence of systemic torture (which I provided); that you then choose to bring up "similar" behavior in western countries is...strange.

It's almost like you are trying to change the subject, repeatedly and unsuccessfully.

[signatoremo]

Care to show those similar testimonies so we can compare?

[trasz]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape_in_the_United_St..., https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_in_the_United_States, I’m sure there’s more on Wikipedia alone.

[signatoremo]

Ugh, the question is about systemic torture. Your counterpoints are not. As terrible as the condition in US prisons can be, those prisoners are convicted. The only crimes the millions of Uyghurs committed are being of a certain race and practicing a certain religion.

Your profile says, “Hates when people get killed, especially for religion and oil”, yet you seem to be completely contradictory in that regards throughout this thread.

[trasz]

My counterpoint is about demonstrating that while the sources document mass detention, they don’t show that the cases of other abuse are systemic - to me it seems they are not mandated by the system, rather, they are individual crimes committed by the guards, and the US prison system is an example of how this problem also exists elsewhere and might be unavoidable at this scale.

>The only crimes the millions of Uyghurs committed are being of a certain race and practicing a certain religion.

And the vast majority of them are fine. It’s not like Iraquis killed by US troops simply for “being a certain race and practicing a certain religion”.

[trhway]

>systemic (EDIT: Systemic, as opposed to a crime committed by a rogue prison guard) torture

having systemically rogue prison guards (say because they never really get punished and everybody aware about it, and frequently even with tacit approval) is a form of systemic torture. Have been this way in USSR/Russia for example.

[trasz]

Of course. But the sources don’t show this to be the case, it’s just an assumption.