[djvdq]

Simple question - if you want to leave HOA and after that grow vegetables, can you do that? If not - it has nothing to do with freedom. It's only propaganda of having the most freedom when citizens of a lot of "non free" countries (by American standards) will laugh at your absurds.

I'm not saying USA is not free country - of course you are free. I'm only saying that telling that you have the most freedom is at least funny.

[next_xibalba]

> if you want to leave HOA and after that grow vegetables, can you do that?

No. The contract you freely enter into governs this. This is sort of like asking, "Can I decide not to pay you, per our contract, after you've rendered services?" No. And that restraint doesn't make me "less free". Not by any common understanding of the word "freedom", anyway.

The U.S. has some 300+ million citizens. I'm not sure we can make monolithic statements about how each of us views the relative freedom of our country. Personally, I wouldn't know how to make such a comparison. However, I strongly suspect we're "more free" than, say, a person living in Iran.

[pvg]

"most freedom" is a thing you brought up yourself to start a silly flamewar. This stuff is in the guidelines:

Eschew flamebait. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents.

Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.

[macinjosh]

You have an incredibly narrow minded and immature view of freedom.

Some people _like_ living in neighborhoods with these bylaws/HOAs. You are fully made aware of the bylaws before you purchase the property and you can decide for yourself whether or not it works for you.

I live in the US and in my immediate area there are neighborhoods without these bylaws, some with, and there is even agricultural use land mixed in. So if you don't like the places with the bylaws there are many other options. In the US you have the freedom to choose among many different ways of life.

Freedom isn't about being able to do whatever you want, wherever you want, at anyone's expense. It is about being able to find and construct a life that makes you and those around you happy. The _only_ way to do that is to not have one over-bearing set of rules (even if the rule is there are no rules), but to allow people to voluntarily set up their own systems of rules in their own communities.

[djvdq]

> In the US you have the freedom to choose among many different ways of life.

So... like in almost any other country in the world.

[bluGill]

Depends. The HOA is a contract with your neighbors, so if they agree the HOA can be ended. See a lawyer, state law and your contract for details that very much matter and are different fof each.

A few houses ago my hoa could be ended automatically after 2018. I moved out just after then, but the only limit I remember was no more than five cows were allowed, I didn't find that a problem.

[rvba]

Looking at the /r/fuckhoa subreddit it seems that those homeovner associations are on level of North Korea and Soviet Russia - someone can come to your property (didnt happen in Eastern Europe even during communism), spy on you, fine you for not parking your car at the garage, fine you 500 dollars for putting a motorcycle outside your house, fine you for having drapes of different color, fine you for having a dog... and many more.

I cant figure out how this works in a country with more guns than people. If those egomaniac HOA people enter someone's property - wont they get shot?

[Merad]

I'm going to assume you aren't American, because it sounds like you're working off of some fairly skewed views of the country. The vast majority of gun owners are pretty much normal people who don't want to shoot anyone for any reason. The vast majority of HoA's are not overbearing or crazy. The Venn diagram of "crazy gun owners willing to shoot anyone on their property" and "over the top HoA's" is going to show essentially no overlap. The former almost always live in rural areas and the latter are usually found in upper class suburban neighborhoods.

[deltarholamda]

> it seems that those homeovner associations are on level of North Korea and Soviet Russia

The HOA is an agreement that is designed to keep a neighborhood from going downhill by residents parking on the street, or turning their yard into a parking lot, or from painting their house some atrocious color. As normally designed, they are little more than a codification of "don't be a jerk."

The problem comes when people get involved. The sort of person who really, really wants to be on the governing board of the HOA is exactly the sort of person who should NEVER be allowed anywhere near a lever of power. These are the sorts of people who are out on the street with calipers to see if your lawn is over the prescribed length, or measuring the height of your mailbox. They take great joy in meddling with other people's lives, and they hide behind the veil of "I'm just enforcing the HOA contract!" to be douchemobiles.

Whether this is an improvement over "either get your car out of your yard or I'm gonna punch you in the nose," is an exercise left to the reader.

[watwut]

I can assure you that places without HOA generally don't have all that many atrocious houses. Nor do they have whole yards turned into park lots.

[yurtol]

What's wrong with parking your own car on your own property?

[deltarholamda]

Because one car becomes one car and a boat, and then it becomes one car, a boat, and a project car that is always being worked on. Then the brother-in-law moves it for a while, and it becomes two cars, a boat, a project car, and an assortment of quad-bikes.

Does it always go this way? No. Does it go this way often enough that people worry about it? Yes.

[TedDoesntTalk]

I received two letters recently from my HOA:

1. Trash can was outside more than 24 hours after trash pickup. Do it again and you’ll be fined.

2. Outdoor Christmas lights in a tree more than 30 days after Christmas. Remove within 10 days or get fined. Those lights have been there for years from the previous owners. I never turn them on and just ignore them. Well, they are gone now.

[flomo]

You shouldn't take reddit creative writing seriously.

[macinjosh]

> I cant figure out how this works in a country with more guns than people. If those egomaniac HOA people enter someone's property - wont they get shot?

1. This is just bigotry. You have been fed lies from culture and the media about what American's with guns are like. The vast, vast majority of gun-owning Americans are responsible and level-headed. Despite what most people gather from the news and pop culture people don't just take potshots at people entering their property.

2. People enter into these associations _voluntarily_. People who start to complain about the rules after agreeing to them just didn't read anything they were agreeing to. And no, this is not fine print. Every HOA I've been a part of provides a binder and a website with all the info you need to make the right choice.

3. Freedom, including gun and home ownership, are about personal responsibility. It is an important cultural value in the US and I understand that it is not something that is valued elsewhere. Which is why people like you end up so confused.