[jdasdf]

> All crypto is a scam and it's so simple to see, it's astonishing anyone fell for this.

No, it is not.

Please try to set aside your hatred for all things crypto and understand that there is actual legitimate value in many of the crypto projects, and that the core proposition, that of decentralized peer to peer value transfer, is a legitimate and useful use case.

[chx]

> decentralized peer to peer value transfer, is a legitimate and useful use case.

I would contest even this. People don't want to transfer "value" they want to transfer money, now to use, say, Bitcoin to transfer money you need to do the following steps:

1. Buy Bitcoin. Let's presume you are already set up with an exchange for this so all you need to do is transfer your money some way to the exchange.

2. Transfer Bitcoin and pay the transaction fee.

3. The receiver wants money. So let's again presume -- despite this is a much shakier presumption -- they are already set up with an exchange then they need to exchange Bitcoin to real money and transfer their money from the exchange to their bank account. I am not mentioning here if they tarry then the exchange rate in #1 and #3 differs -- that could be automated although as far as I am aware there's no service which currently does it.

Turns out the challenge is not #2 but the bank transfers in #1 and #3: integrating with every national banking system in the world. Wise (nee Transferwise) shows this can be done without Bitcoin, creating transparency and predictable fees.

This does not mention the criminal aspects of Bitcoin, I am focusing just on the transfer aspect.

[rglullis]

When you send money through Wise to Argentina, what exchange rate is used? The bullshit one from the government or the blue dollar?

Can you hire someone working in Venezuela and pay them with Wise?

"Oh, they are underdeveloped countries", you will say. Okay, question: If you were in Greece 5 years ago and you wanted to get your money out, could Wise help you in any way?

[giantrobot]

There's no transfer of "value". There's a transfer of a ledger entry saying wallet 0xBA11C0CS has 1 unit of fantasy money. That ledger entry only has value to other people playing the fantasy money game.

Unless someone with vast capital assets is willing to accept units of fantasy money in trade for those assets, it has no real value besides hucksters finding Greater Fools.

Worse than cryptocurrency being fantasy money, it literally wastes an Argentina worth of power (and growing) every year. I doubt the entire global financial industry, including all mainframes, office buildings, corporate jets, and commuting workers uses even one Argentina with of power in a year. And the global financial industry is doing billions upon billions of transactions for trillions upon trillions of dollars.