Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by _jal 1490 days ago
> where they argue they never consented to be governed

They also never consented to birth.

They are free to renounce their citizenship, however. Nobody is forcing them to stay US citizens.

> Maybe we can experiment with better society designs on mars

Hate to break it to you, but Mars colonies (assuming they ever exist) are going to be dictatorships. Lifeboat ethics don't leave a lot of room for arguing, let alone voting.

3 comments

Is it really that easy for US citizens to leave? Where can you go if you have neither money nor education or skills and are older?
You can leave most countries and renounce citizenship, typically with some hoops to jump through but it can be done.

The questions of where you'll go and how you'll support yourself are something that you'd best figure out before starting that process, because after you start your country of origin may well say 'not OUR problem anymore' about you.

That's not really the US's fault though, right? "You're free to leave, but if you want to stay here you have to abide by our rules," sounds reasonable I think. There are countries in the world where you're not free to leave even if another country will take you, and this argument would hold a lot more water.
Renunciation is not free - they literally charge you for it. You also can't renounce without obtaining another citizenship, which, surprise, surprise, you generally have to buy with both time and money.
Free as in freedom, not beer, as they say.

But Sovereign Citizens are rugged individualists who don't need no handout, eh?

> You also can't renounce without obtaining another citizenship

That is false for US citizens. See:

https://www.usa.gov/renounce-lose-citizenship

The book Decline and Rise of Democracy goes into detail about this. Pretty much all nations that had a resource jugular (I.e. Egypt with the Nile) become extractive societies.